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warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/16/01
Posts: 5810
Loc: Ozark, AL
Piston durability
#317345 - 06/14/03 01:36 PM

Hey, I know cross-posting is bad, but this is also a 3L issue and I am going to start the thread in here for those people that don't peruse the Forced Induction forum.
BurritaSVT just blew his turbo 2.5L motor, and it sounds just like what happened to mine.
I've been trying to track this problem down since it happened to me and I had some coincidental things happen that enlightened me to its nature; I believe that I have a good theory on it. Here's what I wrote in the FI'd forum:

**
You have a 99 and that is significant. That makes 3 or 4 forced inducted 1999 model year 3L or 2.5L engines that have cracked pistons. What happened to your engine sounds very similar to what happened to my 3L a couple of weeks ago.
By comparison, Keysers engine is a 2000 and I suspect that they have updated pistons in them.
I have discovered that on 3L's in late 1999 they updated the pistons and the position of the piston rings is moved upward on the piston.
The upper compression ring is higher, the 2nd compression ring is higher, the oil control ring is thinner but remains in the same place. This means there is more space between the 2nd compression ring and the oil control ring and results in a thicker 2nd compression ring land.
I was discussing this with Keith at Streetflight when my pistons went and I am beginning to see a pattern here.
When you get the engine apart, take pictures of the broken pistons for me so I can compare.
I think what you will need to do is similar to what I did, replace your pistons with the later updated style. We should try to get a picture of a 99 2.5L piston and 2000 2.5L piston. It may turn out that the pistons in 99 and older duratechs are not strong enough and that FI'd cars are going to need to have the late 99 or 2000+ pistons.

HEY EVERYONE:
This is SERIOUS folks as there are going to be a lot more failures out there if this theory is confirmed with fact AND it's likely it isn't detonation causing it, its cylinder pressure!
I don't think the 2.5L SC'd vortech motors will have a problem, since I think its torque loads ~250's that may be doing it. All turbo cars and 3L S/C's beware.

Tom
**

Lets get some brainpower here and any more pictures or information on 99 and earlier pistons vs. late 99 and later pistons!


--------------------
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black

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Swazo
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/20/02
Posts: 4970
Loc: Land of the watered-down expletives... you fetching fetchers!
Re: Piston durability new
#317436 (Re: warmonger) 06/14/03 03:39 PM

Here ya go Tom....

Here is a pic of my new 1mm over bore 3L piston and my 98 2.5L piston from my SVT......hope it helps.....

:

--------------------
2005 Ford F150 SuperCab FX4
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1998 CSVT: 354HP/328TQ @ 10 psi, now gone

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BOFH
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 05/26/00
Posts: 2127
Loc: Belleville, IL
Re: Piston durability new
#317468 (Re: warmonger) 06/14/03 04:14 PM

Remember the 2000's do have a slightly smaller displacement and higher compression ratio. So it does seem reasonable that the pistons are different.

You guys are making me nervous about my little trip to AZ coming up...

But I don't need insane power, so maybe I can just turn the boost down a bit until I have another good run in the stock market to build another engine

TB

--------------------
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004


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CougarGT
CEG'er

Reged: 01/23/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Re: Piston durability new
#317559 (Re: BOFH) 06/14/03 06:33 PM

FWIW......

Jame's (CustomCougars) piston had a similar problem, while running the SF kit. His however is a 2001 2.5L. It is unsure what was the cause of his failure.

--------------------
Ex Owner - 1999 Melina Blue Cougar
3.0L/SVT Hybrid

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Keyser Soze
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/26/01
Posts: 1860
Loc: The Sonoran Desert
Re: Piston durability new
#317576 (Re: CougarGT) 06/14/03 07:08 PM

James' piston had marks in the top where it smacked the valves. Not the same thing.

--------------------
2001 Lincoln LS8
1994 Lexus GS300

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PA 3L SVTModerator
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 06/25/01
Posts: 1541
Loc: Conshohocken, PA
Re: Piston durability new
#317632 (Re: warmonger) 06/14/03 08:53 PM

I'll leave it up top, at least until you get this all sorted out.

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CougarGT
CEG'er

Reged: 01/23/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Re: Piston durability new
#317707 (Re: CougarGT) 06/14/03 11:13 PM

Originally posted by CougarGT:
FWIW......

Jame's (CustomCougars) piston had a similar problem, while running the SF kit. His however is a 2001 2.5L. It is unsure what was the cause of his failure.




It was also rumored that he was running 87 octane. As to the truths of these rumors, I am unsure.

--------------------
Ex Owner - 1999 Melina Blue Cougar
3.0L/SVT Hybrid

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Keyser Soze
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 03/26/01
Posts: 1860
Loc: The Sonoran Desert
Re: Piston durability new
#317725 (Re: CougarGT) 06/14/03 11:53 PM

I'm sure he wasn't running 87 octane. Probably just a simple mistake in shifting or switching of the programs.

--------------------
2001 Lincoln LS8
1994 Lexus GS300

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DemonSVT
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 09/13/00
Posts: 9602
Loc: KC, MO
Re: Piston durability new
#317890 (Re: Keyser Soze) 06/15/03 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Keyser:
Probably just a simple mistake in shifting



I did that recently... The S-AFC doesn't lie either.

--------------------
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!

It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.

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svttour
Hard-core CEG'er

Reged: 08/13/01
Posts: 1089
Loc: land of the heat!!~both the team and the temp.
Re: Piston durability new
#317928 (Re: DemonSVT) 06/15/03 07:28 AM

here's a pic you might want to share interest in... its from my 99 CSVT 2.5L no forced induction but it might help to your theory... cylinder #4

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99 T-RED 3L SVT
Apillar Guages How-To

3L 98 CSVT SF/MB 4 SALE 7500 obo pm me

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