Lke2drvsvt
(CEG\'er)
08/31/06 03:10 PM
Brakes DESTROYED...

Went to Gingerman raceway last night (road racing track) to do some open lapping. By the end of the night after 20-30 minutes of real hard driving/braking, my brakes were destroyed. My rotors were scorched, pads were shredded, and my fluid was boiling.

Now the interesting thing is I just replaced my master cylinder the night before, bled the brakes twice using Motul 600, I had the Bendex Titanium pads from Stazi, and some stock rotors from pepboys. The rotors/pads only had 10k miles on them or so.

My friend's SVT just had regular pepboys pads/rotors that were over a year old, maybe 2 years, and his were fine. They were hot and the pedal was maybe a little spongy, but they still worked and nothing was warped. How could this be????

My car is a 98.5 CSVT and his is a '99.


Ray
(Addicted CEG\'er)
08/31/06 03:13 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Ever see that scene on "Days of Thunder", where Cole races HIS way 50 laps, then the coaches way 50 laps?


I'd say, at least off hand, that you were racing "your" way, and your friend was racing the coaches way.



TourDeForce
(Hard-core CEG'er)
08/31/06 03:32 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Sounds like maybe one of your caliper slide pins was gummed up & your brakes were dragging a bit? Maybe?? Overfilled resevoir?

I couldn't see it happening on both sides from a slide pin. The brakes were obviously dragging.



Lke2drvsvt
(CEG\'er)
08/31/06 03:51 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

I'll test the brakes tonight to see if they're dragging. Black marker on the rotors and coast down the street.

Would it be worth it to just go with pepboys pads/rotors using my commercial account and just replacing them everytime I race as opposed to buying expensive Bendex pads?


SVTGT350
(CEG\'er)
09/01/06 01:25 AM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

The best way to check for a binding brake caliper is to raise the wheel, pump the brake pedal a few times and check to see if the wheel spins freely. If it does not spin freely open the bleeder, if you get a quick squirt of fluid from the bleeder and the wheel then turns free, you may have a brake hose that is not allowing pressure to release from the caliper.

Big Jim
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/01/06 05:00 AM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Ray:
Ever see that scene on "Days of Thunder", where Cole races HIS way 50 laps, then the coaches way 50 laps?


I'd say, at least off hand, that you were racing "your" way, and your friend was racing the coaches way.






+1


Ray
(Addicted CEG\'er)
09/01/06 11:50 AM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

A reason behind why I said this is that if it were anything as extreme as is being suggested (sticking pins, etc)

you'd have had boiling fluid and smoking rotors on the way TO the track..


Auto-X Fil
(Hard-core CEG\'er)
09/01/06 12:52 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Brakes are the opposite of tires. Tires you baby, brakes you give as much time to cool as possible - which means using them hard.

Did you brake hard and short? If you're ever braking and not using them 100%, that's going to overheat them in a hurry. Find your marker, get on them HARD, and hold them at the threshold (or on the floor, with ABS) and then roll off quickly but smoothly before turn-in.

Here's a question: do you have ABS? Did it come on? If you do, and it didn't come on in every corner, you were not braking hard enough.

Also, Bendix pads are not good for high-temp work. How many laps did you do? Did you let off the throttle or hold it all the way to the braking zone? You've got to baby your brakes on track. My Miata is probably the cheapest car available that comes with brakes deemed worthy for track useage - they're the same size as those on my overweight, front-heavy pig of a Contour. Without at least pads, and probably rotor upgrades, Contours need to run short sessions and be watched carefully. Your car may stop with the Bendix pads being piles of molten goop on the backing plates, but it's going to eat through them ina hurry.


Lke2drvsvt
(CEG\'er)
09/01/06 05:20 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Most of the time I wasn't using 100% of the brakes. I'm not sure if my ABS is working as it should... There's a "clicking" sound, but I don't really seem to feel anything in the brake pedal. I think my car was skidding to a stop, meaning that my ABS was not working properly...

I'm a little confused by your post though, first you say that the brakes should not be babied, then you said they should? It was my second time at the track so I don't really have much experience, but should I be babying the brakes or should I be doing 100% on every turn? I figure either way whether I get really good pads/rotors or some cheap no-name pepboys brands they're going to end up [censored] after a day of racing, so why spend the money?


Kremithefrog
(I have no life)
09/01/06 05:36 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

I think by baby, he means let off the throttle some before braking, use engine braking. Only brake as long as you need to. Staying on the brakes longer than you need to is going to heat them up.

Definitely get your abs checked out. You should really feel it and not be skidding.

The only real trackable brakes you're gonna get for a contour are bigger rotors, maybe different calipers, good pads, and good fluid.

Basic pads are gonna get killed under real track use.

I hope with warmongers brake upgrade (300mm front, 280mm rear), carbotech pads, and good fluid that I have something that will last decent for 2-3 laps on a track if I ever get to one.


Tourige
(Hard-core CEG\'er)
09/01/06 08:41 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

so bendix brakes are not advised if you plan on doing track time? (like twice a year)

Lke2drvsvt
(CEG\'er)
09/01/06 10:20 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

The bendix pads are great, but considering they'll bust down after 1 good day of track use, I have no need to spend the money on them. I can get all 4 rotors and pads for $100 brand new from pepboys, so I think it would be wiser to just buy a new set everytime I go racing, since spending $400+ on a good set of rotors/pads would maybe last me twice as long.

Loco4G63
(CEG road warrior)
09/01/06 10:48 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.

Kremithefrog
(I have no life)
09/01/06 11:16 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Tourige:
so bendix brakes are not advised if you plan on doing track time? (like twice a year)



Out of the easy to get brake pads, I guess they're not bad, but if you are really pushing the car at the track, they're not gonna do so well. Like I said, the only really trackable brake setup on a contour is going to involve bigger brakes. My escort stops on a dime with just hawk pads on stock rotors and has great fade resistance. But the escort weighs about 500lb less than the contour.
So I guess out of the options available, bendix aren't bad, but they are going to smoke a lot and fade. If you want something a bit better, contact carbotech and get some pads. And if you really want better stopping power and a lot better fade resistance, get bigger rotors.


TourDeForce
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/02/06 06:36 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


ChattavegasSE
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/02/06 07:43 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

I think he means engine braking. Run hard on the Jakes, it'll slow.

Loco4G63
(CEG road warrior)
09/03/06 02:57 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


Had my ATX......no downshifting or engine braking.

ChattavegasSE
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/04/06 01:16 AM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


Had my ATX......no downshifting or engine braking.



Oh yeah, you never went high enough in the RPM's for that to happen. It's no fun below 5k!


Auto-X Fil
(Hard-core CEG\'er)
09/04/06 01:49 AM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Lke2drvsvt:
The bendix pads are great, but considering they'll bust down after 1 good day of track use, I have no need to spend the money on them. I can get all 4 rotors and pads for $100 brand new from pepboys, so I think it would be wiser to just buy a new set everytime I go racing, since spending $400+ on a good set of rotors/pads would maybe last me twice as long.




Carbotechs will last many, many track days. I did two hard days and there was no visble wear. I bet you could get a pretty full summer out of one set - probably 1,000 laps of a long track like the Glen.


Tourige
(Hard-core CEG\'er)
09/04/06 04:38 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Here is a better question; Will the Bendix pads perform better than the stock OEM replacements from Partsource or will they heat up more and ill get that fun squishy pedal?

Loco4G63
(CEG road warrior)
09/04/06 06:23 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


Had my ATX......no downshifting or engine braking.



Oh yeah, you never went high enough in the RPM's for that to happen. It's no fun below 5k!


Had it locked into 2nd gear....hit rev limiter quite a bit.

ChattavegasSE
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/04/06 06:35 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


Had my ATX......no downshifting or engine braking.



Oh yeah, you never went high enough in the RPM's for that to happen. It's no fun below 5k!


Had it locked into 2nd gear....hit rev limiter quite a bit.



Seriously? Because I was doing the same thing. I guess (*instert comment to spark 4-cylinder VS. 6-cylinder debate*), ain't that right!?!?


Loco4G63
(CEG road warrior)
09/04/06 06:47 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


Had my ATX......no downshifting or engine braking.



Oh yeah, you never went high enough in the RPM's for that to happen. It's no fun below 5k!


Had it locked into 2nd gear....hit rev limiter quite a bit.



Seriously? Because I was doing the same thing. I guess (*instert comment to spark 4-cylinder VS. 6-cylinder debate*), ain't that right!?!?


I should clarify....I used a brakes a little more going down than up the Dragon.

ChattavegasSE
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/04/06 06:55 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Loco4G63:
I had Bendix all the way around for pads.....stopped everytime. Went to the track, went on the Tail of the Dragon, and I drove fast and nothing. A little smoke but always stopped.




Brakes on the Dragon??? Sounds kinda girly to me.


Had my ATX......no downshifting or engine braking.



Oh yeah, you never went high enough in the RPM's for that to happen. It's no fun below 5k!


Had it locked into 2nd gear....hit rev limiter quite a bit.



Seriously? Because I was doing the same thing. I guess (*instert comment to spark 4-cylinder VS. 6-cylinder debate*), ain't that right!?!?


I should clarify....I used a brakes a little more going down than up the Dragon.



Well that's better. I mean, who uses their brakes going up a mountain?


Kremithefrog
(I have no life)
09/04/06 08:31 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

I use em both ways. Guess I'm doing it wrong.

ChattavegasSE
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/04/06 09:08 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Ross I didn't know you went both ways!

Kremithefrog
(I have no life)
09/04/06 11:09 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
Ross I didn't know you went both ways!



You liar! Don't hide your true feelings!

"Yeah I've got dibs on Ross's rear." From:
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=SE&Number=1309086&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1


ChattavegasSE
(Hard-core CEG'er)
09/04/06 11:15 PM
Re: Brakes DESTROYED...

It's all pink on the inside!


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