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95_Mystique

95_Mystique

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
3,970
Location
Middletown, Pa
i've done a bit of research on brakes for these cars, but i still have a few questions for you guys. as you all may know, i have a 95 'stique GS. I'm looking to put rear disc on the car, but need some more info. there is a CNG car at the jy w/ rear disc that i can get all the parts from. i was wondering, if i put those rear disc on, should i upgrade to SVT size front disc? or would i be ok using the stock ones i have up front? also, i have a problem with serious brake fade, and i want to auto-x this year, any ideas what i could do? if i upgrade to SVT size brakes, do i need to get a 16" rim, or could i stay with a 15"? also, do they make a slotted/drilled rotor for the front of a stock sized rotor? my goal is to prove to my buddy that my car with the right things done, can keep up in the corners with his 03 GTI.
 
If you're gonna swap to discs be sure to take everything including the ebrake cables, brake hoses and brake lines just in case. I helped a friend do a swap on an Integra once and sure enough he forgot parts and didnt have a working ebrake for months until he got the correct lines. As far as the SVT front brakes goes it just depends on if you can find the parts but plenty of SE owners do just fine with the slightly smaller front brakes, a good rotor and a good set of pads.
 
you'll need pretty much the whole braking system up to the master cylinder if you upgrade to disc brakes in the rear. It takes a lot more pressure to generate the same braking force in a drum brake as a disc brake, so if you just swap straight over you will have really grabby rear brakes.

Slotted/cross drilled brakes wont do anything for you btw, anymore they are mostly for show. If you need a cheaper car for donor parts use the brake system off a regular V6 contour, and swap over the rotors and calipers from the SVT.
 
i acutally have a 4 banger contour with rear disc for parts. and are u sure the slotted and cross drilled rotors wont help with the brake fade? its really bad after braking at high speeds or even constant braking.

also are u sure i need the master cylinder? how hard is that to swap over? is it just bolt on?
 
You don't need a master cylinder. It's been done for years without any swapping. I believe they are the same master cylinders between both brake types.

My brother is running a rear disc setup on his 95 Mystique GS pulled from my 98 SVT parts car. His original drum setup was leaking and completely shot. It now has a rear disc swap and all new pads and rotors.

The swap is a fairly smooth deal if you aren't fighting rust like I was pulling the parts from the SVT.

I'd go with SVT fronts as well. It's not a huge increase in stopping power but should do the job for what you want to do. We didn't do the swap on his car because even though he runs E1's during the summer, his stock wheels are 14". Your 15" wheels will clear the brakes with no problem.
 
well my stock ones are 14's as well, but i'm looking into gettin some 15" sport wheels. the car i'm looking at getting the parts from is pretty rusty as well, now to take it all apart and do it, do you have to drop any of the suspension? i've never done this before.
 
95_Mystique said:
i acutally have a 4 banger contour with rear disc for parts. and are u sure the slotted and cross drilled rotors wont help with the brake fade? its really bad after braking at high speeds or even constant braking.
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Yes I'm sure. Brake fade is when things get too hot and slots/holes arent there to help with cooling. I have a feeling you're describing something else besides fade unless you really are cooking the brakes by driving like an idiot.
 
I would recommend getting the disc proportioning valve. as your drum proportioning valve will be the only part other than the rear brakes and e-brakes cables you might as well accept your steel lines will likely break when you try and change them so you will have to replace those with some new lines.

to reduce fade get your rotors turned and get some good performance pads

ad some stainless break hoses to firm up the pedal...

I think you'll find with the rear disc that your breaks are way better.

your rear drum may not even really be working... people ignore them like the plague and since your front disc do 60% of the breaking you can get buy with out rear and not even know it.
 
i know the drums are working fine, the have been replaced last winter with all new springs, shoes, drums, etc, but they're warped already for the second time. and sometimes they lock up first.

also as far as driving like an idiot, i did one autox last year and by the end of one lap, i would have to push the pedal to the floor and they still wouldnt lock up. it feels like its under braked. also did some screwing off with my buddy and trying to keep up w/ his GTI. so yea i did do some driving like an idiot.
 
If you're "warping" brake parts you need to buy better quality stuff and if you think its under braked normally better parts and better tires solve that.
 
i'm using bendix rear parts and wherever gold pads with new rotors. idk why the drums keep warping, and i think the tires are good considering i can launch the car at 5K and it goes at the drag strip.
 
Slotted or cross-drilled rotors were designed to aid in off-gassing of the pads. Since this is no longer necessary, you dont need slotted or cross-drilled rotors. There are a whole ton of other myths associated with slotting or cross drilling that I dont want to get into right now, but the only purpose they served was to reduce off-gassing. If you are having a lot of problems with brake fade, then I recommend that you go with a higher quality pad and get braided SS brake lines. Also you will feel a lot less brake fade on a four wheel disc car than you do on your car with rear drum anyways.

CSVT1214 said:
You don't need a master cylinder. It's been done for years without any swapping. I believe they are the same master cylinders between both brake types.
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I said up to the master cylinder. I didnt say he would need a master cylinder, idk if there are bore differences between the two, but he does want a proportioning valve from a 4 wheel disc car. Basically all the major parts that come after the master cylinder, although he may still want to have the donor on hand in case he ruins any of the lines while he is disconnecting things.

Word to the wise, buy flare nut wrenches.
 
FunInNorthDakota said:
Slotted or cross-drilled rotors were designed to aid in off-gassing of the pads. Since this is no longer necessary, you dont need slotted or cross-drilled rotors. There are a whole ton of other myths associated with slotting or cross drilling that I dont want to get into right now, but the only purpose they served was to reduce off-gassing. If you are having a lot of problems with brake fade, then I recommend that you go with a higher quality pad and get braided SS brake lines. Also you will feel a lot less brake fade on a four wheel disc car than you do on your car with rear drum anyways.



I said up to the master cylinder. I didnt say he would need a master cylinder, idk if there are bore differences between the two, but he does want a proportioning valve from a 4 wheel disc car. Basically all the major parts that come after the master cylinder, although he may still want to have the donor on hand in case he ruins any of the lines while he is disconnecting things.

Word to the wise, buy flare nut wrenches.
Click to expand...
On non ABS cars they use a pressure reducer either right at the master cylinder or right before the flex hose. On ABS cars the ABS module controls the pressure to the rear brakes. Either way nothing needs to be changed to install rear discs. Just remove the old knuckle, install the disc knuckle and discs, hook up the flex hose, and replace the ebrake cables with new ones for disc cars. If everything comes apart nicely and you don't brake the hard line it should only take a couple hours.

For the fronts, it's so easy to upgrade to SVT sized rotors that there is no reason not to. Unbolt your caliper, unbolt old caliper bracket, replace rotor with larger one, install new bracket, reinstall caliper. You just have to find someone that has a set of E1 caliper brackets.
 
striker2 said:
On non ABS cars they use a pressure reducer either right at the master cylinder or right before the flex hose.
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Correct. I'm sure you recall that we determined that a switchover occurred somewhere between the '96 and '97 year in the location of the pressure reducer, therefore the pressure reducers are located just under the master cylinder.
 
the early SVTs came with a white spare that i believe was aluminum. the later ones came with a steel spare, looks like any other steel donut rim.
 
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