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interesting gear oil comparison my brother found

A

AliasJerk

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Oct 13, 2003
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/337564/Study-of-Automotive-Gear-Oils-from-wwwoilshoppercom

My brother has a brand new Toyota Pickup with a MT, after a couple thousand miles he decided that he wants to change his gear oil, so he went around and based upon this info decided to go with Redline MTL, which is fine for his truck, and obviously a big no no for the MTX-75.

Something I noticed though... Amsoil Severe Gear is rated pretty much the best out of all of the fluids tested, and worryingly Royal Purple really didn't do nearly as well as I expected it to.

So now im thinking of going from Royal Purple over to Amsoil... But one question... I went over to the amsoil website, and for the SVT contour they suggest for the MTX-75 SAE 10W-40 Synthetic High Performance Motor Oil
or 15W-40 Synthetic Diesel and Marine motor oil.

So what is the deal? Would I be able to use Severe Gear in my SVT? Has anybody else tried this fluid out?
 
Goumba said:
I'm using amsoil atf right now. I like it.
Click to expand...

"ATF over a period of time,causes build up of black oxides within the trans and affects the soft metal bushes on 'stoc' shift forks and causes them to become very stiff on the shafts", quote per Terry Hanes


todras said:
...the short vid is a used(tight) shift fork on its shaft Vs a new shift fork(slides easy)This is the long term effect of any ATF fluid on the white metal bushes used on the MTX75 shaft forks. This was one of the main reasons Ford changed the spec. ATF fluids are a no no in an MTX75. Should also note that both the tight fork and the fork rod came from a customers trans that had issues with stiff shifting. From measurements, the rod was in spec, the tight fork was out of spec and the bush I.D. was too small Vs the size of the I.D. of the new fork used in the demo. Also note that just changing to a non ATF fluid only has a 50/50 chance of helping tight forks, once the bushes have expanded it's usually too late. Moral here is to stay away from all ATF fluids and F/mod..TH

And as posted before in case you guys missed it... ;)
Click to expand...

based upon that info, and many other posts like it that I found, im staying away from ATF.
 
AliasJerk said:
"ATF over a period of time,causes build up of black oxides within the trans and affects the soft metal bushes on 'stoc' shift forks and causes them to become very stiff on the shafts", quote per Terry Hanes.
Click to expand...

I have actually seen this on one of my gearboxes. My car is driven less than 5000 miles a year, so I will not worry about this right now with my current gearbox. I have had the amsoil atf in for about 2000 miles and one race, and it is doing just fine for now. Unfortunately I will not be able to do a long term test on the amsoil atf. The current gearbox will be coming out of the car next week. The next one will have ford honey in it.
 
i had 241K miles on my zetec trans when i removed it. it had nothing but ATF in it its entire life. pulled the shift forks off the shafts without any problems. they just slid right off. :shrug:
 
why would you use a gear oil in a transmission that doesn't call for gear oil :shrug:

gear oils are way heavier then atf or syncromax, etc. it has been said that 10w-40 diesel oil is acceptable. its a good fluid to use to flush the mtx also ...
 
Don't take out the Royal Purple, you bimbo. Not a fan of Synthetic 10w40 Motor oil either. Like Brapple said, it is good for flushing the trans. :) Gear oil is just plain stupid in our cars as well. If you really want to go fancy, go with Ford Honey. Nothing shifts like Royal Purple or Ford Honey.
 
That video looks like a dramitzation(sp). Lets see more of the second shift fork sliding, looks hokey...... Are they even they same type of shift fork? I.E. roller bearing vs. standard bushed.

FYI the cleanest and best looking transmissions I have pulled apart had ATF...... Hardly any wear on the parts, some real high mileage here as well. The dirtiest I have seen have come from mtx's using Honey. I personaly prefer Royal Purple, and recommend it.
 
BrApple said:
why would you use a gear oil in a transmission that doesn't call for gear oil :shrug:

gear oils are way heavier then atf or syncromax, etc. it has been said that 10w-40 diesel oil is acceptable. its a good fluid to use to flush the mtx also ...
Click to expand...
Well....Gear oils and motor oils are rated on different numbering systems. A gear oil in 75-90 isn't really "heavier" than a 10W-40 motor oil. It may pour a bit stiffer cold, but that gets into a lot more technical reasoning than "heavy".

Now why one over the other? Gear oils are exactly that. They are engineered from stocks that withstand the shearing action of gears better than most motor oils. Not that I defend the use for the MTX-75. I'm running Amsoil 15W-40 diesel oil. Love it for the whole 150+/- miles it's been in there. Much better than whatever crap the last guy used. Shifting actually feels the same from cold at 15 degrees to full warm now. :shocked:
 
AliasJerk said:
So now im thinking of going from Royal Purple over to Amsoil... But one question... I went over to the amsoil website, and for the SVT contour they suggest for the MTX-75 SAE 10W-40 Synthetic High Performance Motor Oil
or 15W-40 Synthetic Diesel and Marine motor oil.

So what is the deal? Would I be able to use Severe Gear in my SVT? Has anybody else tried this fluid out?
Click to expand...
I'm stumped too on the reasoning. I'm an Amsoil dealer, so I have access to technical support folks there and I called. Still didn't get a definitive answer to the question. But here's my feeling. Even if the ding dong sitting on a phone line can't figure it out I'm going with their recommendation. Who the crap am I to argue with the findings of lubrication engineers working for the the only company in the US to market full synthetic oils for autos since '72? The part that really puzzled me is that they don't recommend their motorcycle oils for this. It's like the best of both worlds of motor oils and gear lube (aside from Harley, most M/C's share crankcase and tranny case as one). In fact, they have to pass all the same standards a 75-90 (+/-, can't remember exact spec) gear lube does.

And BTW, I won't say that Royal Purple or several other premium brands are bad. There are several top notch lube brands out there. But of course I think Amsoil tops them all. That's why I'm a dealer, not the other way around. JMHO. When it comes right down to issues like this one, it's a personal choice. If you're looking for what will give the longest possible life to your parts, NO ONE can answer that. You're more likely to see a part go from fatigue than from wear in a comparison of one premium lube to another. I won't speak on the issue of ATF in the MTX. That I have no business addressing. But ATF's are an entirely different ballgame, including the extensive use detergents. But I wouldn't use it in my car!
 
yes but don't gear oils often have extra addatives that the mtx doesn't require? that was one of the issues of the red line mtl. some reported that sometimes it had addatives for the high pressures you would see between gears in a rear end on a rwd car. that is in no way good for a mtx spec'd for atf ...
 
Let me throw in my $.02.

Things I learned from that everlasting thread "Watch Out" alerting us to the problems with Red Line MTX. Part from stuff from that thread and part learned from independant research. Some I already knew.

There is a big difference between gear oil blended for manual trans use and gear oil blended for differential use. Generally the stuff blended for differential use has loads of stuff for extreme pressure (EP) protection. This is critical because of the loads applied to the ring and pinion on hypoid gears (the configuration that puts the pinion gear near the bottom of the ring gear to provide a lower drive shaft to lower the tunnel through the passenger compartment). Some (but not all) EP additives are harsh on yellow metals.

ATF is somewhat of a gear oil, made to handle gear loads in an automatic transmission as well as handle the hydraulic responsibilities to control the trans shifting.

Gear oils that are specifically blended for manual transmission use are yellow metal friendly.

Manual trans operation is enhanced with gear oils that are friction modified (oil made to be more slippery).

Some ATF has more friction modifier than others. Mercon V has more than Mercon and ATF+3 as well as ATF+4 have more friction modifier than either Mercon.

From that "Watch Out" thread we learned that MTF was "more of a gear oil" than Ford Honey.

Because Ford Honey is very nearly a 10W40 synthetic motor oil, some oil companies specify their synthetic 10W40 motor oil as a replacement for the MTX75.

The MTX75 does not have a hypoid differential in the final drive so it doesn't need much if any EP additive.

Some additives used to enhance EP tollarence and friction modification tend to promote sludge build up, especially when heavily loaded and there is a lot of heat generated from the gear interface.

If the correct friction modifiers and EP additives are used and the oil is properly blended for manual trans use, there is no disadvantage to using such oil in the MTX75.

Most all of the questions raised in this thread can be explained by understanding the above.

What do I have in my trans? At the moment I have Ford Honey with 2oz of Ford Friction Modifier added. I have also run Mercon and ATF+3. Fresh Mercon ran better than aged Mercon (after about 15,000 miles the trans benefited from fresh Mercon). ATF+3 ran much better than Mercon with no noticable degradation. Ford Honey with Friction Modifier added runs a little better than ATF+3, but not a lot. I have not tried Royal Purple Synchro whatever, but I believe it would work fine. From experience with other transmissions I also believe that Torco has a product that will work well (BAT carries it). I'm not familiar with the Amzoil offering, but if it is specifially blended for manual trans use it would probably also work well.

There are many fluids that will work well in this transmission if carefully selected. Red Line MTF does not appear to be one of them. Ford Honey is most certainly NOT the only one.
 
i'm understand alot of what is being said in this thread but something i searched for has not been answered. of the trans fuild that can be used in the MTX-75 whats the good and the bad of each one. i'm currently doing a torsen t2 in my trans once i get it and i wanted to know what would be a good fluid to use.
 
DaSnoBordr said:
i'm understand alot of what is being said in this thread but something i searched for has not been answered. of the trans fuild that can be used in the MTX-75 whats the good and the bad of each one. i'm currently doing a torsen t2 in my trans once i get it and i wanted to know what would be a good fluid to use.
Click to expand...

The bad is Red Line MTL. The good is most anything else I wrote about. Read it again and you will see that some are "gooder" than others.

I'll let someone else respond about what to use because of the Torsen, but my understanding is that the Torsen is tolorant of just about any kind of transmission lube.
 
Big Jim said:
The bad is Red Line MTL. The good is most anything else I wrote about. Read it again and you will see that some are "gooder" than others.

I'll let someone else respond about what to use because of the Torsen, but my understanding is that the Torsen is tolorant of just about any kind of transmission lube.
Click to expand...

torsen site doesn't say anything about what can or can't be used as fluid
 
I just recently switched over to Amsoil and i love it. i just had the trans replaced last Feb, and since then i put about 24k on the 'new' trans. switched it over to Amzoil and it shifts like a totally different car.


might i also add a slight increase in gas mileage. 1-3mpgs:cool:
 
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95_Mystique said:
I just recently switched over to Amzoil and i love it. i just had the trans replaced last Feb, and since then i put about 24k on the 'new' trans. switched it over to Amzoil and it shifts like a totally different car.


might i also add a slight increase in gas mileage. 1-3mpgs:cool:
Click to expand...

what type of amsoil did you use?
 
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