which IM for 3.0?

[KAOS_3.0]

You are a tiny bit right here, but you have gone completely the wrong direction with it. EGR isn't about making power at all. EGR is used to re-introduce exhaust gases into the intake tract. Exhaust gases are essentially inert as far as the combustion process goes, so it replaces some of the oxygen in the incoming air charge, allowing less fuel to be injected and maintain a given air/fuel ratio. This improves fuel economy, and reduces the temperatures in the combustion chamber which also reduces NOx emissions. Because of the drop in temperature, ignition timing can be advanced a bit more to partially compensate for the lost power by the reduced fuel/air mixture quantity being burned. EGR is ONLY used under part throttle conditions to improve fuel economy, and reduce NOx emissions. EVERY calibration I have ever looked at, turns off EGR completely at WOT.




Again, a little bit of right, but you ran off into left field with it . . . First, I agree that PCV system can be a source of crud in the intake. Second, I agree that PCV helps with acidity of the oil by removing water vapor in the crankcase. But, as Pud pointed out, there are other very good reasons for the PCV system, not least of which is reducing windage in the crankcase, which has proven to reduce drag on the rotational parts, and consequently improve power by a small but measurable amount. As far as dumping into the intake, there isn't really another readily available way to draw a vacuum on the system without installing a secondary vacuum pump (which has been done in a number of applications before). A good way of managing the "crude" is to put an inline filter/trap into the PCV line. And lastly, the volume of air coming through the PCV is very very small compared to the volume of fresh air coming in, especially at WOT, so I wouldn't worry too much about any vapor coming through there, besides, the water vapor provides additional mass that expands from the heat of combustion, lending a bit of help in pushing the piston down.

As for the EVAP, I've never looked really closely, but I'm pretty sure the majority of engine calibrations turn it off at WOT also, so the power concerns are basically pointless.

agreed at all points there.

evap has an interval based on how long the fuel vapor has been stored in the charcoal canister, and is then injected at the next time the air fuel ratio can handle it. I seriously thought about deleting my evap system, but ultimately it seemed like too much trouble to remove all that crap.

[edit]

also thought I'd throw this out there since we're talking about deleting EGR and such, and to help get this thread back on topic a little.

if you want to delete the EGR, you can run the st220 intake manifold, since it's probably one of the very best available for the 3l.

actually, you could even use it if you didn't want to delete the EGR, but it would require some modding

 

[Rara]

agreed at all points there.

evap has an interval based on how long the fuel vapor has been stored in the charcoal canister, and is then injected at the next time the air fuel ratio can handle it. I seriously thought about deleting my evap system, but ultimately it seemed like too much trouble to remove all that crap.

I'm glad that you agree that you were only a tiny bit right before.

And fwiw, deleting EGR solely in an effort to increase power is silly, just push the pedal down harder until you get to WOT.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I'm glad that you agree that you were only a tiny bit right before.

And fwiw, deleting EGR solely in an effort to increase power is silly, just push the pedal down harder until you get to WOT.

exactly

so were can I get a separator for the PCV on my 02? this is something I hadn't thought of.

 

[morbid]

I got my separators from HomeDepot. Their new ones have a weird drain valve though.... that, under vacuum, allows air in through the drain valve. A vacuum cap fixes that, but I still prefer the older models.

Stroll through their tools section, and look at the air compressor parts. The 1/4" NPT model is what you want. Or you could buy the same thing from Steeda, but at about 4x the price.

 

[Pudmunkie]

agreed, but in order to delete the EGR and not detonate the engine, you'll have to retard ignition timing and add fuel.

ignition advance= more power

more fuel= a little power gain, but much worse economy.

it just seems dumb to me.

on the pcv separator, where can I find one for my 02 sable engine? I'd be interested in that since it probably can't cost too much. I'll have to find one soon though since the intakes will be off by tomorrow evening.

Deleting the EGR just means tuning around it at part throttle, most of which is done buy the PCM on its own (open loop). At WOT any timing retard or fuel advance from part throttle is null and void, closed loop takes over and its a whole new tuning map.

I'm not sure it can be explained much clearer to you...

I'm glad that you agree that you were only a tiny bit right before.

And fwiw, deleting EGR solely in an effort to increase power is silly, just push the pedal down harder until you get to WOT.

No doubt, I deleted it solely to clean up the engine bay and make life easier. It eliminated 80% of all vacuum lines in the engine bay, and I won't have to worry about the stupid ing pipe burning through EVERYTHING!

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I got my separators from HomeDepot. Their new ones have a weird drain valve though.... that, under vacuum, allows air in through the drain valve. A vacuum cap fixes that, but I still prefer the older models.

Stroll through their tools section, and look at the air compressor parts. The 1/4" NPT model is what you want. Or you could buy the same thing from Steeda, but at about 4x the price.

ahh, so we're talking about a line dryer for a compressor. I actually have an old one in my shed some place, I'll find it when there is some sun and take a pic to see if it will work for me. thanks dude.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

Deleting the EGR just means tuning around it at part throttle, most of which is done buy the PCM on its own (open loop). At WOT any timing retard or fuel advance from part throttle is null and void, closed loop takes over and its a whole new tuning map.

I'm not sure it can be explained much clearer to you...



No doubt, I deleted it solely to clean up the engine bay and make life easier. It eliminated 80% of all vacuum lines in the engine bay, and I won't have to worry about the stupid ing pipe burning through EVERYTHING!

yeah, you could also jut pull the vac line it. but niether would get all the junk out of the engine bay, and would be pointless, since as you said, it closes at WOT.

at any rate, i like my EGR and I'm keeping it. too each their own

 

[Pudmunkie]

yeah, you could also jut pull the vac line it. but niether would get all the junk out of the engine bay, and would be pointless, since as you said, it closes at WOT.

at any rate, i like my EGR and I'm keeping it. too each their own

What does 'just pulling' the vac line do but shut down the EGR and throw codes? You leave all that garbage in there.

Deleting everything does get all the junk out of the engine bay, and is not pointless. Do you even know where the EGR/all of its components are??

Show me on these pictures?:

Anyway, keep it... It's your car.... Your opinion as well (even if it's wrong :laugh

 

[KAOS_3.0]

you bolted a crazy aluminum plate where the valve would be, but you still have the EGR solenoid over on the pass back side of the IM. if you really tuned it out, why leave that? couldn't make a mil eliminator for it?

so congratulations you removed one piece of 5/8 metal tubing, and a few tiny vac lines, way to go, sure was worth the reduction in MPG

 

[blu_fuz]

hmmmm

 

[elraido]

you bolted a crazy aluminum plate where the valve would be, but you still have the EGR solenoid over on the pass back side of the IM. if you really tuned it out, why leave that? couldn't make a mil eliminator for it?

so congratulations you removed one piece of 5/8 metal tubing, and a few tiny vac lines, way to go, sure was worth the reduction in MPG

You mean the 35 mpg I got on my way home after picking up the car....

 

[Pudmunkie]

you bolted a crazy aluminum plate where the valve would be, but you still have the EGR solenoid over on the pass back side of the IM. if you really tuned it out, why leave that? couldn't make a mil eliminator for it?

so congratulations you removed one piece of 5/8 metal tubing, and a few tiny vac lines, way to go, sure was worth the reduction in MPG

That was on there during assembly and has since been crushed.

EGR eliminator kit - 25$. Block off plate and EGR block off nut. EGR Programming can be tuned out in 3 seconds.

You mean the 35 mpg I got on my way home after picking up the car....

OH, SNAP. Of course I never got that much because I was always buried in the throttle making way more power than Kaos. :laugh: Oh yeah - thats Untuned too!

 

[KAOS_3.0]

good for you, I drive my car to more than SZ.

EGR serves a purpose. deleting it doesn't help make power.

removing it just so you don't have to pull two bolts and a pair of vac lines makes no since to me.

you're of course entitled to do whatever you like with your car though.

 

[Pudmunkie]

good for you, I drive my car to more than SZ.

EGR serves a purpose. deleting it doesn't help make power.

removing it just so you don't have to pull two bolts and a pair of vac lines makes no since to me.

you're of course entitled to do whatever you like with your car though.

I did too, It was a daily for me and it's a daily for Elraido, hence 35mpg :laugh:. Apperantly the EGR wasn't doing much of anything!

And for the 100th (?) time, its removed for ease, aesthetics, etc...

But you're right, the EGR does serve a purpose - Emissions and fuel economy:help: (though 35mpg w/out it is good enough for me...)

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I think this has been beaten into the ground. I have my way and you have yours. this isn't going anyplace. it's not like any new info is going to be discovered.

so lets stop high jacking this thread about intakes in order to argue about EGR.

 

[elraido]

I think this has been beaten into the ground. I have my way and you have yours. this isn't going anyplace. it's not like any new info is going to be discovered.

so lets stop high jacking this thread about intakes in order to argue about EGR.

You are in MN, right? Next time there is a meet, you can see the car in person just to get a better understanding of what it looks like without it. It is just a option that you can go either way with when you build a 3.0L

 

[KAOS_3.0]

naw, NC dude

 

[ST200]

A longer time ago I found some pics here ... now I can't find them again:

Someone used liquid metal (ore something else) to convert a oval port head to 2 singe ports (like 2.5 head). Can you tell me something about that?! Which materials are used ... does it work ... does it unfasten after a longer time?

I think this would be ideal for my needs. I want to use a ST220 block, ST220 heads, ST200 LIM + UIM, ST200 cams. Only the higher RPM's are interesting for me.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I like how you think. I seem to remember hearing about a guy welding the wall in and then reporting the heads. can't remember were though. I wouldn't recommend JB weld, just don't know how long it'll hold up to the fuel spraying on it.

I would think a really good head shop could do this though, but it would be big money

 

[morbid]

I thought it was jb welded. With "high velocity ports", most people use jb weld on the floors.... and I haven't heard of anyone having it come loose. Having it welded would ease the mind though.