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What's in Mobil 1

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Big Jim

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
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Thousand Oaks, California, USA
There is a theme developing over at www.bobistheoilguy.com that I thought would be worth sharing. It has developed into several extremely long threads so I'll just pass on a summery. These threads are a little like the "everlasting" thread we had here about RedLine MTL, except that it expands much more rapidly. In less than a week, one of the threads is in the range of the entire "Watch Out" thread on MTL which went over several months.

Mobil took Castrol to task a few years back on the definiation of synthetic oil. Castrol Syntec used mostly group III base stocks which many considered to be an enhanced petroleum product rather than "pure" synthetic. The "pure" synthetic" term was reserved for group iV and V basestocks. Mobil lost. Since then Mobil has still posterized itself as better because of using mostly group IV and some group V in their blend for Mobil 1.

Recently someone on bobistheoilguy ran a gas chromatagraph test on two of the many products that have the Mobil 1 label (15W40 for one) and found that they included a significant quantity of group III in the blend.

No other gas chromatagraph tests have been performed.

Mobil's responses have been evasive.

Feelings have run amouk as opinions about the significance of this have been expressed. Some say that they will never use Mobil 1 again. Others say that if they have found a better way then fine, as long as the product performs as well or better than it has in the past. Still others are upset that there may be significant cost savings that Mobil is not passing on (just like Castrol has never passed on the cost savings for their methods).

It is unknow if this was a temporary measure to overcome the shortages in basestocks caused by Katrina and Rita. It is also unknown if this involves other viscosities or just the two tested.

Most interesting of all is how wild the accusations and heated the discussion when there is really so little really known at this point.
 
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I was going to post about this last week but didn't see any sense until 5w30 was tested. I doubt too many run 15w-40 here.
 
Very interesting, indeed!

I'm really eager to find what the updated consensus is on this issue, but don't have the time to read all those posts!

So did somebody do a gas chrom. for 5w-30? Man, this would be difficult to analyze though. The peaks would be almost on top of each othr.

So what will you guys do if it does indeed show Group III? What about the PAO content, any feedback there?

I'm sure all the die-hard Amsoil guys are having a field day with this. What's your recourse, Jim? I'm not ready to shell out the $ for Amsoil, maybe time to go back to dino??? (Obviously, after some more concrete data!)
 
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geez, what a time for me to have switch to amsoil. hehe. And since it is the same price here as mobil one, me thinks I am getting a better deal.
 
ancientsanskrit said:
Very interesting, indeed!

I'm really eager to find what the updated consensus is on this issue, but don't have the time to read all those posts!

So did somebody do a gas chrom. for 5w-30? Man, this would be difficult to analyze though. The peaks would be almost on top of each othr.

So what will you guys do if it does indeed show Group III? What about the PAO content, any feedback there?

I'm sure all the die-hard Amsoil guys are having a field day with this. What's your recourse, Jim? I'm not ready to shell out the $ for Amsoil, maybe time to go back to dino??? (Obviously, after some more concrete data!)
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for someone to gc 5w30.

There is still more unfolding over at BOBISTHEOILGUY. Some have posted from industry publications how there are great strides being made in the quality of group III. GTL technology (gas to liquid) is proven but plants probably are not online yet. GTL is a Mobil technology that will provide group III that very closely rivals group IV (PAO). It is referred to as group III+.

There seems to be a feeling that group III may yet become as good as or nearly as good as group IV, but not yet. The cost of making group IV compared to group III or III+ is significant. Mobil may drop production of group IV entirely. If they do, that may leave Amsoil without a source.

You asked for my opinion. I have long believed that today's conventional oils perform darn near as well as today's synthetics. Synthetic isn't needed unless you are dealing with temperature extremes (especially below -30), extreme extended drain intervals, or just feel you need the best no matter the cost. It's truly about as useful as a mink lined jock strap.

But then again, Mobil made a fuss about Castrol using group III in their Syntec and had held themselves above the others by staying with group IV. It is a blow to their integrity for them to start using something lesser and then not disclosing it. Claiming that it is "propritory information".

This has been truly very interesting and enlightening over at BOBISTHEOILGUY.
 
Big Jim said:
Synthetic isn't needed unless you are dealing with temperature extremes (especially below -30), extreme extended drain intervals, or just feel you need the best no matter the cost. It's truly about as useful as a mink lined jock strap.
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Temp extremes---check, we get -50 below normally a few times a year
Extreme drain ints----check 120 mile a commute each day will do that
need the best-----not so much

Two out of three aint bad LOL
 
Lol, I don't care who (Mikey/Tom) the credible source is as long as we get some data!

Exactly, it isn't the fact that Group III can be near efficient as group IV/V, rather it is the blatant false advertising. Coupled with the whole Castrol mess and you've got a good chance of customers dropping your product. On the flip side, what are the differences between your Group III+ to a PAO/NS? Can it affect drain intervals? I'm under the impression that higher groups are less likely to oxidize (since PAOs are usually hydrogenated oligomers, composed of an alkene group).

Jim, what's the hoopla about M1 5w-30 extended? If I read a few posts correctly, they did a G-C on the extended version and found high group III readings. What's the difference between the regular "full synthetic" and "extended?"

Keep us updated! I, too, am suprised that not much interest has sparked on this site. I was under the impression that many CEG'ers used M1??
 
If you havn't noticed in the last few months Mobil 1 has been marketing a more expensive product called Mobil 1 EP. Mobil 1 EP is rated for even longer drain intervals. Supposidly Mobil 5000 is good for 5000 miles, Mobil 7500 (a blend) is good for 7500 miles, Mobil 1 is good for 10,000 miles, and Mobil 1 EP is good for 15,000 miles.

Although mentioned in the post I directed you to, I have not seen the information on 5W30.

The lower level group III product is generally better than group I and group II, but still fall short of group IV (PAO). The better group III will be very close to group IV, generally falling just a little short in some respects and actually being a little better in other respects. The speculation is that there is not yet any significant production of the best group III (group III+).

There is still a lot unknown. Makes you feel like you're watching a magic show with a lot of smoke and mirrors.
 
This is much ado about nothing.

Mobil 1 challenged Castrol and lost. That was many, many years ago.

I don't think there is anything misleading about their marketing at this point.

I still think they are better than the Castrol synthetic that is sold on US shelves.

I seem to recall the shift to more group III in the mix ocurring some time ago, to the knowledge of nearly everyone, but well after they "lost" their court battle. Why is this news over on BITOG?

Oil companies are not obliged to give you their recipe. Sorry. But it is proprietary information.

All the synthetics beat all the dynos on every performance measure you can think of. Not everyone "needs" the extra performance, but it's there.
 
elraido said:
geez, what a time for me to have switch to amsoil. hehe. And since it is the same price here as mobil one, me thinks I am getting a better deal.
Click to expand...

I have been running Amsoil since day 1. But thats just because it's the same price up here, like you mentioned!
 
Ran Mobil 1 when I got my Contour. Beat it everyday, 7000+ rpms everyday for the 5 years/140k I had it. Great stuff.

Now my Evo calls for it....and I have/will continue to use it.
 
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