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Starting issues

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Blackcoog

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Messages
1,998
Location
Mounds View, MN, USA
I finally got around to working on my own 3L SVT. I recently installed the 3L. It is a ported 3L with SVT intakes, SVT cams and headers. I tried to start it up and it won't start. It turns over and runs for a second or two but the intake is popping pretty bad.

I run a compression check and all the cylinders seem ok (130-155). Plug wires are in the correct order. I swap to a different set of wires, no change. I swap coil packs, no change. I swap cam and crank sensors, no change.

So I decided to tear it down and check the timing to verify it's timed correctly. I remove the timing chains and re-time everything. The timing didn't seem to be off though. I get everything back together but it still won't start. If I hold the gas all the way down when trying to start I can barely get it running but it's really rough and shuts off right away. The engine seemed to turn over by hand perfectly fine after re-timing it.

I swapped the MAF, no change. I checked the fuel pressure regulator to see if fuel is leaking into the vacuum line and it's fine. I verified all the injectors are squirting fuel. I double checked all the grounds and they are all there. I removed the lower intake and checked all the intake valves and they look normal.

I removed the computer connector last night and the blue rubber piece in the computer is slightly damp so I left the connector off so it could air dry. I also disconnected the harness near the brake booster to inspect it but it looks fine.

Tonight I'll plug the computer harness back on and see what happens. My next avenue of attack is to remove the y pipe and see if there is a clog in the cat.

The only other odd thing I've noticed about this car when I received it is the ground going from the frame near the battery to the transmission tower is severely scorched. I'm not even sure how you could scorch a ground like that unless you hooked it up to the positive terminal. I did run through all the smaller fuses with a DMM and they were good.

The PATs light is working normal, but is there anyway the computer could be fried because of the previous owner. Anyway to verify if a computer is having issues? This is a 1999 SVT Contour. I suppose I'll get a scanner on the car and verify each sensor is outputting.
 
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Well popping through the intake sounds like the timing is off not on the cams but maybe the cam sensor is bad or the crank sensor. There are only a few things that cause intake back fires and you said you checked the valves for seal and you did not cross your wires I would wonder by putting on a timing light to make sure the TDC is correct with the spark first. Joey
 
Crank wheel is definitely in the 2.5L position.

I removed the y pipe and there was no change so nothing is clogged.

Should you be able to see a spark plug spark if you pull it out connect it to the spark plug boot? I was pretty sure you could but when I tried it last night on cylinder 4 I didn't see any spark. The plugs are covered in fuel, no surprise since we know the injectors are working. I used a DMM to test the coil pack and wires and they all checked out.

I'll look into checking the car with a timing light.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Chris
 
If the ECU did have issues could I use the ECU from my Cougar, which is a SVT contour ECU (SFG0)? I have the pro racer package for that ECU and I should be able to disable PATs in the software to get around the key issue. I wonder if it would let me flash in the stock code with PATs disabled and move the ECU over to the car I'm having issues with and allow me to start it.
 
In order to see a spark you will need to touch the threads of the plug to something grounded. If you still can not see a spark you need to check the ignition. Check to make sure you have all of the wires on correctly.
 
Wires have been checked, double checked, triple checked, ... and so on. They are on correctly. Thanks for the tip on the plugs I'll try grounding the threads.
 
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Blackcoog said:
If the ECU did have issues could I use the ECU from my Cougar, which is a SVT contour ECU (SFG0)? I have the pro racer package for that ECU and I should be able to disable PATs in the software to get around the key issue. I wonder if it would let me flash in the stock code with PATs disabled and move the ECU over to the car I'm having issues with and allow me to start it.
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I can't imagine why you would not be able to try this and have issues. IIRC, DemonSVT found that tuning software he tinkered with for quite some time, but it was only available in one of our ECU codes. Some people switched over to ECU with that stategy to be able to tune their car too.
Ah, the pre-SCT PRP days....

Though I don't think it'd run at all with a bad ECU. Pulse wheel is what I was thinking it sounded like, but you've checked that. I had 2 bad connectors in my SVT, and once they were fixed everything was kosher. Sometimes they can get stretched out and one of the pins isn't seating all the way to make a good connection. They can get filthy too. An old method with older 4X4's is to hose them down with WD40 and connect, disconnect, spray more and repeat until it's deffinatly clean and making a good connection. There might be something better than WD40 for this, but you get the idea.
 
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Actually a few years back I finished a car that had an issue with the connectors on the side of the rear valve cover. All I did was disconnect and reconnect them and the car started. I went over those connectors pretty carefully the other day on this car and they seem normal. Some of the pins were a bit dirty but they should be making contact. I might as well spray them down and try connecting/disconnecting to see if it helps.

I did put another set of new plugs in last night without any change.
 
Chris, i have a spare ecu, from a return style 98 svt. Let me know if you want to borrow it. :shrug:

I dont have any ideas other than Vacuume leak. I know your experiencing almost an identical issue we had on ryans car when we put the top end backtogether. We had Missed the EGR Tube, and it was open, causing it to Die out immedietly. It also wouldnt start unless we gave it an extreme amount of pedal.

Worth a shot. Check the EGR tube and lines:D
 
Oh yeah, that happend to me too. The damn EGR was shut off on my tune and I didn't even have one. I totally spaced off capping off the rear header's EGR port..... nipple.... whatever. I could get it running by mashing the pedal too.
 
The EGR tube is hooked up. It really doesn't seem like an intake leak like an EGR tube opening. I've troubleshooted those before and this seems way different. When I could get it running it was really rough like it was only running 2 cylinders. The fuel is coming out of the injectors. I'll verify each plug is firing tonight by pulling them out and looking for a spark.
 
It's starting to sound like a bad harness after all, unless you are getting spark.

To correct what I was saying earlier (after reading what JoeM posted :D), you should be able to use a return style ECU on another return style engine, despite what the code is. The same obviously goes for returnless. It makes sense, but I could be wrong.

Keyser had issues with a bad ECU, IIRC nothing would happen. It'd just crank and crank, no sputter or running at all.
 
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It's running!

Well after too many hours of staring at this damn engine, re-timing it, and replacing every sensor possible I figured out the problem. Turns out it was an intake leak.... a massive one. I'm running weapon R headers which were designed on a 2002 Cougar. The 2002 Cougar has a different EGR tube which is slightly longer. I knew this but my current EGR tube looked like it would fit with some muscle but apparently I was wrong. The EGR tube is about 1/2" short and kept the upper intake manifold from seating completely on the gaskets. :blackeye: So I disconnected the EGR loosened the upper intake and tightened it back down. The car started right up and runs fine even with the EGR hole exposed. It looks like I'll be ordering a 2002 Cougar EGR tube. Odd thing was that the upper intake looked perfectly normal and I even pushed on it to see if it was seated. What a pain....
 
Good Job
Glad you found it I bet that will be something you will always beaware of now.........lol but glad you got her running good. Joey
 
Blackcoog said:
It's running!

Well after too many hours of staring at this damn engine, re-timing it, and replacing every sensor possible I figured out the problem. Turns out it was an intake leak.... a massive one. I'm running weapon R headers which were designed on a 2002 Cougar. The 2002 Cougar has a different EGR tube which is slightly longer. I knew this but my current EGR tube looked like it would fit with some muscle but apparently I was wrong. The EGR tube is about 1/2" short and kept the upper intake manifold from seating completely on the gaskets. :blackeye: So I disconnected the EGR loosened the upper intake and tightened it back down. The car started right up and runs fine even with the EGR hole exposed. It looks like I'll be ordering a 2002 Cougar EGR tube. Odd thing was that the upper intake looked perfectly normal and I even pushed on it to see if it was seated. What a pain....
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Cool.:cool: You could just modify your EGR tube with copper parts from the hardware store to work with the Weapon R headers. :shrug:
 
Yeah I could but the new tube is only $30 and there isn't much room back there to tighten those copper fittings down when the engine is in. The new tube is on order and should be at my place on Friday.
 
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