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Why are Ford's international cars so much better then they're Domestics?

M

m4gician

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
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In North America we're subject to Ford's LAME vehicles (mustang exception and possibly the gt) with pathetic naming practices.

Fusion, Fairline, Freestar, Freestyle, F150, Focus, Five Hundred

Escape, Explorer, Expedition, Excursion, Edge, etc.

And how lame and pathetic their designs are (compared to...EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER maybe except for some GM cars and the Corolloa).

Ford UK, Ford Austrailia and Ford everywhere else has exciting cars like the Mondeo, and their performance division cars.

http://www.fpv.com.au/index.aspx

The cars have aggressive styling, and bold performance, why can none of that translate here?
 
I hear ya brother. Styling is gradually getting better. The new Lincoln styling is definetely bold. Car and Driver absolutely hated it. Their exact words were, "What are they thinking?!" But its styling like that, that can be good. It honestly has grown on me and I like the new Lincoln styling. If you play it to safe with styling, you end up with another Ford Taurus and you send it to the graveyard in about 5 years.

Its about time they came out with the 3.5L, although its about 5 years too late.

Ford really needs to up the par on styling on the rest of their cars though. Its sad. Fords best styled car is the Mustang (minus the now dead GT), and its something that doesnt even have original styling. Ford has to style it based on a car from over 30 years ago.

The bottom line is the management at the head of Ford doesnt have a clue. My dad who is an employee for Ford actually got to give a 30 minute presentation in front of Elaina Ford and her committee and one of the things my dad mentioned was Ford needs to come out with a car to compete with the SRT-4, Cobalt SS, etc, instead of keeping the naturally aspirated SVT Focus. There response was, "Well, we got the Mustang V6." I think that pretty much sums it up right there. :nonono:
 
Ford is somewhat bound by its market in Canada and the US. Many demographies simply won't buy a Ford, no matter how well it compares to the competition -- just look at the Contour.

Another factor is that Ford is more than just Ford/Lincoln/Mercury now and have strong selling cars among consumers that are traditionally anti-Ford.

The result is that the Ford brand has been Ford Motor Company's budget brand in Canada and the US.

In my opinion, Ford and GM tainted a lot of opinions by failing to adapt to industry changes quickly enough from 1980 through 1994. During that period, their vehicles were outclassed in technology, agility and efficiency compared to many imports. To be honest, I almost overlooked the Contour because it's a Ford.
 
beyondloadedSE said:
The bottom line is the management at the head of Ford doesnt have a clue.
Click to expand...
I disagree with that. While there are plenty of things they have no clue about (such as how to really compete w/ the SRT4 and Cobalt SS), there are things they understand very well and thats catering to what the majority public wants. Good work trucks and people movers.

From my experience the majority of americans couldn't tell an exceptional driving/handling vehicle from the toilet they **** in everyday. They'd rather have a smooth handling, quiet riding, one up the neighbor's vehicle no matter how far it disconnects them from the road and driving experience.

Plus thats not getting into emission and safety standards that are different.


That said, Ford's Australian performance line-up .... thats what they need to bring here. Screw the new mustangs.
 
m4gician said:
In North America we're subject to Ford's LAME vehicles (mustang exception and possibly the gt) with pathetic naming practices.

Fusion, Fairline, Freestar, Freestyle, F150, Focus, Five Hundred

Escape, Explorer, Expedition, Excursion, Edge, etc.

And how lame and pathetic their designs are (compared to...EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER maybe except for some GM cars and the Corolloa).

Ford UK, Ford Austrailia and Ford everywhere else has exciting cars like the Mondeo, and their performance division cars.

http://www.fpv.com.au/index.aspx

The cars have aggressive styling, and bold performance, why can none of that translate here?
Click to expand...

Why do you ask so many questions? ;)

The long answer to your question contains enough material for a master's thesis.

There are many factors, some of which have already been alluded to.

1. The American market is not like Europe or Australia. Our topography is dominated by long, straight, wide roads and open spaces. Our culture is more "work oriented," and despite how you feel about it, convenience, economy, and even image rank higher on the scale than performance.

2. In Europe, BMW is a "full line" sedan maker. You can get a stripped down 3-series with a weak engine and no amenities, or you can load it up. It's not the "prestige brand" it is here in the states. Neither is Ford seen as the "bargain" or "commoners" brand, at least not as much as here, so the two are on a more level playing field. What that means is that a potential European buyer might even cross-shop a Mondeo and a 325, whereas over here, the two markets are seen as completely different.

3. It's more expensive than you think, and not always a sure winner, to "bring over those Australian cars." Look at the new GTO. It was the greatest idea in the world until it got here, but it's never taken off the way everybody thought it would. Oh, sure, there was that core of enthusiasts who couldn't wait to get into it, but the "normal" US consumer looked at the balance sheet and said it's not economical or convenient enough, and the looks are just so-so, so the image score isn't great, either.

4. Good news: Now that the leadership at Ford has changed, I'm hearing rumbles of a new design direction. I think it was on "Autoline Detroit" where they admitted that "safe" designs weren't going to get them anywhere (a la "500"), and that they'd rather have designs that "50% of the country hated," because that meant they were pushing the envelope a little.

5. In defense of the Mustang: I don't think it's retro in the slightest. Iconic? Yes, in the tradition of the 911, and nobody is calling that car "retro." More of that would be just fine, thank you very much.
 
I think the other factor that people are forgetting about is the almighty dollar. Ford USA and Ford Europe and Australia all operate as independent entities. Plus, domestics have to contend with the unions and those damn extravagant benefit and pension plans that autoworkers have enjoyed for years. According to one study, 1400 bucks of every car and truck GM and Ford sells goes to paying employee benefits, something that even import brands that have factories here in america don't have to deal with. Think about that for a second....1400 bucks could mean a higher grade of interior plastic, more high tech stuff, etc. Nissan, Ford, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes plants in America aren't unionized.

As for bringing over cars from europe untouched, that's easier said than done because the two markets are vastly different. I LOVE the Mondeo in Europe, but take a minute the next time you go to Ford UK's site and convert the price to US dollars....a fully loaded Mondeo will run you something like 32K in US currency. Compacts in Europe are like midsize vehicles to americans...there's no stigma about it being small or cheap. The amount of features that go into European Fords would push the price plenty high.

My last topic while I'm on my soapbox is that I totally disagree about Ford and domestics being doomed because they weren't so hot before. Hyundai, Kia and Audi all were far worse in more recent times and they have all been able to overcome the past. Hyundai was selling crappy Scoupes and Excels well into 1996 and 1997 and they were able to get it together quickly. Ford needs to change it's focus from being just competitive to being class-leading the way they used to be. They used to really push the envelope even up to the early 90s....Ford had a lot of firsts up until recently, but they've lost their way. They need to get better management in there...people that are real car guys, not just accountants. Just my opinion.
 
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate everyone's input especially someone who doesn't mind shedding some intellectual light on a subject that just baffles how Ford expects to compete with such conservatism, how long will it take them to RE-TAKE a market that they had for years and lost because of being conservative (the taurus might still be here if it changed WITH the times)

And to answer your first question, I love asking questions. The more you ask, the more you know, the more you learn about what you don't know. Plus it gives me an opporunity to communicate with everyone.


RogerB said:
Why do you ask so many questions? ;)

The long answer to your question contains enough material for a master's thesis.

There are many factors, some of which have already been alluded to.

1. The American market is not like Europe or Australia. Our topography is dominated by long, straight, wide roads and open spaces. Our culture is more "work oriented," and despite how you feel about it, convenience, economy, and even image rank higher on the scale than performance.

2. In Europe, BMW is a "full line" sedan maker. You can get a stripped down 3-series with a weak engine and no amenities, or you can load it up. It's not the "prestige brand" it is here in the states. Neither is Ford seen as the "bargain" or "commoners" brand, at least not as much as here, so the two are on a more level playing field. What that means is that a potential European buyer might even cross-shop a Mondeo and a 325, whereas over here, the two markets are seen as completely different.

3. It's more expensive than you think, and not always a sure winner, to "bring over those Australian cars." Look at the new GTO. It was the greatest idea in the world until it got here, but it's never taken off the way everybody thought it would. Oh, sure, there was that core of enthusiasts who couldn't wait to get into it, but the "normal" US consumer looked at the balance sheet and said it's not economical or convenient enough, and the looks are just so-so, so the image score isn't great, either.

4. Good news: Now that the leadership at Ford has changed, I'm hearing rumbles of a new design direction. I think it was on "Autoline Detroit" where they admitted that "safe" designs weren't going to get them anywhere (a la "500"), and that they'd rather have designs that "50% of the country hated," because that meant they were pushing the envelope a little.

5. In defense of the Mustang: I don't think it's retro in the slightest. Iconic? Yes, in the tradition of the 911, and nobody is calling that car "retro." More of that would be just fine, thank you very much.
Click to expand...
 
German Ford lineup:

ka-hore.jpg

Ka €6711 / $8530

fiesta-hore.jpg

Fiesta** €9034 / $11,482

fusion-hore.jpg

Fusion** €10,899 / $13,853

focus-hore.jpg

Focus** €12,264 / $15,588

c-max-hore.jpg

Focus C-MAX €15,099 / $19,191

mondeo-hore.jpg

Mondeo €17,556 / $22,314

s-max-hore.jpg

S-MAX €20,727 / $26,344

galaxy-hore.jpg

Galaxy** €22,134 / $28,132

maverick-hore.jpg

Maverick €21,832 / $27,748


ranger-hore.jpg

Ranger** €19,942 / $25,346

**Names that have been or are currently being used by US Ford vehicles.

Left the GT out, doubt they sell that still!

STUPID 10 image rule!!!

EDIT: added base prices... I removed the 1% VAT off the prices so you can compare it with US models that are priced before tax.
 
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I don't think it would be possible to "federalize" the Ka. It's too small, and by the time it meets US crashworthiness standards, it would be neither cute, cheap, or economical.

I've heard rumblings of a Fiesta returning to the US.

I wish they had updated the US Focus when they did the Euro version, but I suppose they didn't feel the need to change a cash cow mid stream. Stupid "rest on your laurels" thinking, if you ask me, but I don't know all the details.

S-max and Galaxie are teensy-weensy compared to American-Market minivans like the Sienna (US-only) and Odyssey (also US-only). Minivans aren't so mini anymore, as US buyers demand more space.

Someone please correct me if need be, but I thought the current Mondeo, Mazda 6, and Fusion/Milan/Zephyr were essentially similar? What's the "performance" version of the Mondeo currently available that we can't and never will get in the states? Is it that much better than an MS6? Will we never see a Fusion ST, or SVT?

As for pricing, it takes more than a currency conversion to understand how much it would cost to sell in the US. There are other conversions--mechanical, transportation, government testing, etc.--that add to the cost.
 
RogerB said:
Someone please correct me if need be, but I thought the current Mondeo, Mazda 6, and Fusion/Milan/Zephyr were essentially similar? What's the "performance" version of the Mondeo currently available that we can't and never will get in the states? Is it that much better than an MS6? Will we never see a Fusion ST, or SVT?
Click to expand...

Ok, to start... Mondeo is on an updated version of the CDW27 platform.

The new 2007 Mondeo rides on the the EUCD platform shared with the Volvos (S60/V70/S80/XC90). It's pretty much an enlarged version of the C1 (Euro Focus, S40/V50, Mazda5, etc) chassis...

The other cars you listed are on the CD3 chassis...

The current Mondeo ST220 is a 3.0L 226HP V6. I would then assume that MS6>ST220.
 
Big Daddy Kane said:
Ok, to start... Mondeo is on an updated version of the CDW27 platform.

The new 2007 Mondeo rides on the the EUCD platform shared with the Volvos (S60/V70/S80/XC90). It's pretty much an enlarged version of the C1 (Euro Focus, S40/V50, Mazda5, etc) chassis...

The other cars you listed are on the CD3 chassis...

The current Mondeo ST220 is a 3.0L 226HP V6. I would then assume that MS6>ST220.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I could have sworn they were all on CD3, but I had a nagging suspicion...
 
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