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Small engine tick, HELP

K

kscontourkid

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
941
Location
Overland Park, KS
:help: I have a small tick in my new 3L and cannot figure out what it might be. using a screwdriver i have listened all over the engine and can only find one place where i can hear a tick at all. that is on the LIM. i have listened to the heads, the block, bank 2 exhaust manifold, water pump, tensioner pulley, valve covers, and the transmission case. i can only find a tick in the LIM.

here are 2 videos one under the hood and one inside the car looking at the tach. the engine is warmed up in these videos. i have a small exhaust leak and a few engine codes but they are irrelevant to a tick or knock.

the first video is under the hood. it is ticking/knocking at 5-8sec, 22-26sec, and 35-42sec in the video.

http://video.cardomain.com/Clip.aspx?key=F01B387A5D657C6D

the second video is in the car and you should here the tick only between 1k and 1.5k RPM. it is very prominent at 1250RPM

http://video.cardomain.com/Clip.aspx?key=5F74AF0D8A39666B

all help is appreciated. the engine has roughly 6K on it. clevite 77 main and rod bearings, new Ford oil pump, 98 block and heads with late 99 updated pistons(pistons only had 30K on when installed), new rings, gaskets, only thing i can think of is i timed the engine about 175 degrees out the first time but it turned all the way over prior to install without hang up. havent had any problems and compression tests passed on all cylinders. running 91 octane gas from Sams Club.

:help:
 
huh.... It is actually pretty loud too. I don't think it is a lifter, good luck.
 
it sounds like mini rod knock... but rod knock is much more obvious then that...

I wanna say probably an exhaust leak right at the exhaust manifolds... Did you install headers when you did your 3L?
 
oiling is what everyone has told me but it is half inch over with royal purple 5W-30. it really only does it when warmed up. i did have an exhaust leak but it was an O2 sensor that was loose and i replaced it and tightened it. im fearing a rod knock but it is so defined to a specific RPM range that i am rather confused by it. thinking about changing to 10W-30 oil but that shouldnt have anything to do with it.
 
You said that the engine only does it when it’s warm. Changing from 5w-30 to 10w-30 won’t make a difference, when operating a normal temperature.

Here is some info on grades of oils from Wiki
Multi-grade motor oil
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold ambient temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a low viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for any single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIs are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year, and when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.

The API/SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. Historically, the first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W". "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W", and thins less at temperatures above 99°C (210°F). The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature. The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. This "classic" method of defining the "W" rating has since been replaced with a more technical test where a "cold crank simulator" is used at increasingly lowered temps. A 0W oil is tested at -35°F, a 5W at -30°F and a 10W is tested at -25°F. The real-world ability of an oil to crank in the cold is diminished soon after put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some modern European cars now make no viscosity requirement), but can vary from country to country when climatic or mpg constraints come into play. Oil circulates through the piston oil rings to cool and lubricate the compression rings. Inside gasoline engines, the top compression ring is exposed to temperatures as high as 500°F.

Many new vehicles are marked to use 5W-20 oil (Honda, Ford, and more recently Toyota) which is not much thinner than a 30 weight oil. Nay-sayers of 20 weight oil's ability to protect engines should note that typically, 30 weight oils shear down into the 20 weight range anyway. Most engine wear is during start-up and warm-up period, where the thinner 20 weight oil's flow is desirable. Overall, lab test results of the wear metals contained in used oil samples show low or lower wear with 20 weight than 30 in applications it is specified for. Some ultra fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles are marked to use 0W-20 oil. For some selective mechanical problems with engines, using a more viscous oil can ameliorate the symptoms, i.e. changing from 5W-20 to 20W-50 may eliminate a knocking noise from the engine but doesn't solve the problem, just "masks" it. Excess amounts of oil consumed by an engine burning it can be addressed by using a thicker oil, a 10W-40 might not burn off as fast compared to a 5W-30. A newer product that also addresses this issue is the "High-Miles" oils now marketed. They tend to be slightly thick for their grades, contain extra additives and seal conditioners. Apparently the formulation of these oils works well in many instances.
 
Update

Update

ok i had my instructor listen to the noise. it is rather quiet in the range of 1k-1.5kRPM loudest at 1250RPM. the first thing he noticed was it is a "double knock." this guy has been working on cars for 40+ years. he said it was too fast to be lifter noise, BUT it sounds like it is coming from the upper end of the engine. he said it is too quiet to be anything terminally detrimental and may not even be a problem just an annoyance.

His off hand diagnosis was piston slap. as soon as he said that i remembered what some older racing engines sound like on start up and it sounds similar. i am going to perform some further tests to pinpoint which cylinder is making the noise or determine if it is indeed piston slap. the other thing that makes this a greater possibility is when i measured my side clearances they were all at the top of the specs.

i would still like to hear anyones opinions as there is always the possibility i am overlooking something.
 
maybe the timing chain tensioner is broken and they're slapping around in there.

it doesn't sound good to me whatever it is.
 
qbcsvt: i thought it was clutch chatter as well which is why i dont know when i started hearing the chatter.

jolly8286: no it is specific to 1000-1500 RPM only. it is very consistent when the engine is warmed up. when it is cold it almost does not make a sound out of the ordinary.

TGO: i dont think it is loud enough to be the chains or tensioners. if it was i think the sound would be louder but i will definitely check those. im leaning more towards a tensioner if it is one of those. wouldnt the sound get louder with more RPMs? that is the big kicker with this noise as soon as i rev over 1500 RPM it goes away and as soon as it drops below 1000 RPM it goes away as well. that is why i am letting no possibility go untested.

thank you. this is awesome feedback please keep it coming and i will update hopefully tomorrow or wednesday with the results of my tests.
 
my father had a rod knock on a 3.8 sable. sounded very similar. couldn't hear it at idle..or after a certain RPM. though i'm not sure it ever stopped, just the motor made so much other noise at higher rpm's that you couldn't hear it.
 
the odd thing about this knock is it clearly goes away above that 1500RPM. as my instructor said for now im going to do a few tests and wait a few months to see if it gets worse. if it doesnt then it is just piston slap which means new pistons or engine.

if the engine lasts 2-3 years ill be happy as i want to build an 01+ full oval port swap eventually.
 
the reason i was asking was because when i changed the plugs and wires on my car i left one spark plug a little loose and that's about the same sound mine made. if you want to, just feel the tops of the plugs. that was my problem, you might have a te-totally different problem. just my .02.
 
jolly8286 said:
the reason i was asking was because when i changed the plugs and wires on my car i left one spark plug a little loose and that's about the same sound mine made. if you want to, just feel the tops of the plugs. that was my problem, you might have a te-totally different problem. just my .02.
Click to expand...

did it do it at a specific RPM?
 
Could be bad A/C compressor clutch. Sounds like that. I know a certain CEGer that picked up an svt the supposedly had rod knock. Was just the compressor.
 
Well here's my .02, mine sounded similar, but at different times than yours, and I just ended up needing a header gasket.


first vid is the ticking




2nd vid is after gasket was replaced.


Hope you figure out whats wrong!
 
todras said:
Could be bad A/C compressor clutch. Sounds like that. I know a certain CEGer that picked up an svt the supposedly had rod knock. Was just the compressor.
Click to expand...

LOL
Still driving it.

The first vid sounded like the rod bearing death rattle.

Pull the belt off and check how all the assessories spin.
 
Last edited:
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