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Help with Alternator/battery problem

S

SVT3391

CEG'er
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
480
Location
Columbia, MD
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Short version:
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1. Car died with drained battery while driving. Jump started the car, but won't last
2. Recharged the battery and drove car back home. No ALT voltage
3. Recharged battery on the car. Showed both correct ALT and BAT voltage
4. Drove the car 10 mins, then no ALT voltage again
5. What should I do next????

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Full version
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Hi guys,

Last Thursday I experienced sputtering and losing power where I was driving after an hour of stop and go traffic jam. It was driving like normal until I turn on the headlight (HID from Keyser's GB). I pulled the car over to an APT parking lot. The dash light was gone and the techometer was dead at 0 RPM. I stopped the engine, and could not turn it over. Some people gave me a jump start and it started immediately, but as soon as the jump cable was removed, the car would not idel smoothly, then eventually died. I had it jump started 3 times. All behaved the same. Eventually there was simply no charge left in the battery and no interior light. So I simply leave my car there.

Saturday I went with my tools. I took out the battery and went to NTB where I bought the battery 1 year ago. They checked the voltage, 11.5V, and claimed it was good.

I went home, used the smart charger I have to recharge the battery. After several hours, it showed an error code 'F01', indicating internal cell short. I tried to charge again, and it seemed at least it was charging.

Today I brought the battery to my car. Put it in, and it started at the first crank. I drove 20 miles to get home. No problem. Even the headlight was on. No battery light in the dash. Seems to be ok.

When I got home, I used the same smart charger's alternator check function. It showed the alternator was shot. I tried several times with same result. So I decided to recharge the battery to compensate the power I used while driving home.

After a while, the smart charger was showing it was charging at 12.1V. I disconnected the charger, use the multimeter to measure the voltage on the battery. 13.4 V. I then started the car, measure the voltage agaion. 14.5V. I did several times, stopped the engine, measured, started the engine, and measured the voltage. I could repeat the result. Then I used the smart charger, this time it showed the alternator was good! :shrug:

I took the car out for a spin. Roughly 5 miles and I got home. Before I stopped the car, I measured the voltage while the engine was running. I believed this way I could get the ALT voltage. Guess what, 12.1 V. After I stopped the car, it's 12.3V. And the smart charger this time said the ALT is no good. I was like, ????????

I recharged the car again. I could not get the 14.5 V from the ALT any more. But earlier I was able to and things were green at that time. I cleaned the battery connectors. Although it seems to be the ALT, but I still hope I could get it to show otherwise.

I haven't checked the 5th fuse and the megafuse. Should those be my next steps? I appreciate any help!

THANKS!!!
 
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Check grounding points to make sure that the circuit is complete. Loose ground connection can manifest itself as bad battery, alt, idle issues ect. I know some members have had problems with wires under battery leading to the power dist box next to the battery. Good luck Dan
 
If the wiring isn't bad, I would lean towards floating brushes. Your alternator would be on its way out. a complete drop out of charging voltage with a following return in complete charge voltage eliminates

  • megafuse
  • battery
the remaining items in the charge circuit would be:
  • alternator itself
  • wiring from alt to battery
  • wiring from battery ground to chassis
  • alternator ground to chassis
  • battery terminal connections themselves
now, for it to be a wiring issue that COMPLETELY drops charge, it would have to be (in my mind) more than a "loose" connection.. it would be a complete open. I'd steer towards the alternator itself. The next time its not charging you MIGHT be able to tap the alt. itself and watch the charge return (be careful of the moving serp belt, etc, while you do this.) This doesn't always work, as the brushes may be too far gone, anyway, but its worth a SHOT to eliminate suspect items.
 
Rick, give me a call.

I've got an altenator you can have. I had it tested about a month ago and it's good.
 
How much corrosion is on your battery terminals? A good cleaning may fix this if there's enough.
 
How old is the alternator and how many miles on it? If it is more than 7 years and/or 100k miles, it is probably time for a new one.
 
Thanks every body for your ideas. Here is my answer/question to each response:

Matt R said:
How much corrosion is on your battery terminals? A good cleaning may fix this if there's enough.
Click to expand...
There were oxidation powder formed on top of each terminal. I cleaned them by wiping them out. Should I use a steel brush or any chemical to further clean them?

69Boss302 said:
I've got an altenator you can have. I had it tested about a month ago and it's good.
Click to expand...
Thanks alot Mike, I will definitely call you.

Tony2005 said:
How old is the alternator and how many miles on it? If it is more than 7 years and/or 100k miles, it is probably time for a new one.
Click to expand...
The car itself is 10 years old, but the ALT came with the 3L that Fastcougar built so I really have no idea how old it is. I may need to call him for that info but I doubt he knows that either.

Big Jim said:
Batteries can sometimes cause all the symptoms you are describing and not test conclusively bad so substitute a know good battery before doing anything else.
Click to expand...
This makes sense too because when I took the drained battery out and had the NTB test on it, it only showed 11.5 V in their equipment. The smart charger I used showed faulty code of 'F01' once or twice and the manual says there is a shorted internal cell and cannot be charged. If this really is the case, I'd prefer to replace the battery than the alternator for sure.

BTW, this is the smart charger I was referring to, and the user's manual in PDF format too:

Vector Smart Charger VEC1088A

User's Manual

Ray said:
  • wiring from battery ground to chassis
  • alternator ground to chassis
Click to expand...
I haven't checked those yet. I will do that today when I get home. Where is the ALT ground? I thought all the grounds go together and screwed to the chassis somewhere beneath the battery.
 
Well, if you know the battery is dead, you need to replace that first. Then check the the grounds. One goes from battery to beneath the battery tray.

The other ground that we are referring to is the one from the alternator to the chassis (somewhere?). For that, you need to refer to the Alternator how to from Ray as well as removing the passenger fender splash shield.
 
UPDATE.

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Short version:
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The alternator is not charging even after getting a brand new battery fully charged.


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Long version:
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I got a brand new Costco Kirkland 100 month warranty battery because Costco is like half mile away from home and is easy to return if I don't think this is the culprit. Charged the battery before installation. It only took less than half hour because the battery was near full.

I swapped out the old (1.5 years old Exide brand) one. Before new one went in, I checked the wire connection and the ground wires. I used a steel brush to take care of the rust or oxidation. Everything seems solid.

I measured the voltage of the new battery before it went in. 12.51 V. And then I placed the BAT in. Turned on the light for 1 minute, then measured again. 12.3V. I was able to start the car at the first crank. Let it idle for several minutes. It idled very smoothly. I then measured the voltage. Still 12.22V. It seems the ALT is not working.

So now the BAT is new and fully charged. I am not sure if the ALT is charging at all. I checked the resistance of the #5 fuse. It's very good like 0.01. Should I detach the ALT charging wire and measure the ALT voltage by that red line and the ALT ground at the chassis?

On a side note, I found my remote trunk release is not working now. When I press the blue button, I know the car sensed it because the light under the dash (close to the the pedals and the ECU) lit. However the trunk will not release. I can use the lever by the driver's seat though. Is it something related to any fuse, or I simply lost the actuator at the same time my alternator went bad?

Any idea helps. Thanks in advance!

Rick
 
Last edited:
it might just be the actuator. Can you hear it make any noise when you hit the button?

There's lots of tours in the junkyards around here right now so we can pull one locally if needed.
 
69Boss302 said:
it might just be the actuator. Can you hear it make any noise when you hit the button?

There's lots of tours in the junkyards around here right now so we can pull one locally if needed.
Click to expand...
That sounds really cool. Believe or not, I have so far never been to any junk yard hunt.
 
And wow, I just found I reached 500 posts when I noticed the 'rank' under my screen id changed. Now I am no longer just a CEGer. I am now a 'Veteran CEGer'! :laugh:
 
UPDATE

UPDATE

UPDATE:
  • Bought a brand new, 100 month warranty battery from Costco
  • Mike helped to swap out the alternator. The new one is a 1-year old Palladium ALT, which was new and not reman when put in service. Mike had it tested before swap and it showed good
  • Mike took the old one to AZ and had them test it. Turned out to be faulty
  • The ALT still does not charge. Volt was 11.5 when engine ran. last night it was 10.6 when ran. Battery was drained afterward and could not start the car. The gauge cluster light was dim
Ray said:
If the wiring isn't bad, I would lean towards floating brushes. Your alternator would be on its way out. a complete drop out of charging voltage with a following return in complete charge voltage eliminates
  • megafuse
  • battery
the remaining items in the charge circuit would be:
  • alternator itself
  • wiring from alt to battery
  • wiring from battery ground to chassis
  • alternator ground to chassis
  • battery terminal connections themselves
Click to expand...

Now the battery is not in the question. We checked the wiring and they seemed good. And it hasn't charged the battery even one time (I only had the car started for less than 10 times and each time measure the voltage). Could it go back to the megafuse problem, as one of the local guy pointed?

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Last edited:
Another update:

Mike came this morning and helped swapped out the mega fuse. Still not charging. :shrug:

BTW, how to determine if a mega fuse is good? We used the multimeter to test the resistance. It seems the resistance is non-existent, for both the old one and the newly put in one.
 
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