Aussie Ford
Hard-core CEG'er
I traded off my 97 Dodge Dakota 4x4 in 02 w/147k on it and nothing other than regular maintenance..... no issues at all.
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The Curse of the Contour
- Thread starter WingBender
- Start date
Looks like this post has sort of died down, but I can certainly say one thing. My first car was a GM, and I swore off of domestic cars after that. I am now 50 and purchased this contour about t 10 years ago, it was my first domestic after a long line of Toyotas. Frankly, except for the water pump disintegrating when I was forced to redline the engine, the car has been OK. The problem has been Ford, specifically their dealerships. For example, I purchased this thing with 15K knowing the motor mount was bad. Asked the dealership I purchased it from to replace the motor mount under warranty. Returned the next day to find they had pulled the transmission and shipped it out to fix the "transmission noise" 2 weeks later, the car was returned with a crap transmission and a still broken motor mount. Subsequent visits destroyed the car further. Most recently, (2 years ago) I attempted to get the engine wiring harness replaced under recall. I went 3 times (2 dealerships) over a 1 year period to ask to have the wiring harness checked and replaced under recall because it was crumbling and was told there was no recall. Technically that was true, it was a campaign. I figured that out about 3 months after it expired. The time between has been pockmarked with multiple similar incidents. Toyotas and Hondas arent perfect, they have problems too, but I think the difference between Honda/Toyota and Ford is that the Japanese are actually concerned about customer satisfaction and keeping their customers rather than just marketing rhetoric. I think Ford wants to make sure my next vehicle is a Toyota. On the other hand, this old Contour will outperform my wifes brand new Honda Accord, both in acceleration and mileage. The water pump may have disintegrated, but that Contour went from 60 to 90 in nothing flat and saved my skinny butt from a head on, and the brakes on this thing are awesome. It's just too bad it was made by Ford.
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Desiato
Hard-core CEG'er
It's funny that the 95 accord significantly outsold the 95 contour, because I see as many old contours on the road as accords around here -- maybe Ottawa winters have something to do with that.
In my experience, many owners of hondas are so proud to be honda owners that they exaggerate the reliability of their cars. I know people whom work in Honda dealerships and many of the garages that I go to are full of Hondas. According to the people I talk to in those locations, Contours are no less reliable than accords.
Mainstream Honda owners are often the type of people whom take their car to the dealership for everything and are used to paying $300-1,000 for 'standard maintenance' without really knowing what was done when they go in for oil changes. They're so trusting of Honda's brand and their cars are so much better than the last domestic car they owned or grew up with that they are acceptant of a lot as normal and therefore not noteworthy.
Another difference between Contour and Accord owners is that Accord owners had to pay more for their car and probably have a larger disposable income. I see a lot of financially strapped people on this forum whom let problems linger for way too long and seem to end up with greater problems and ultimately larger repair bills.
For the record, my 95 Contour has been a steal. It was cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and drives great. If it was to die tomorrow, I wouldn't feel ripped off because I've gotten so much value for what I've put in. A 95 accord at the time would have cost more to buy than the total cost of ownership of my Contour. And, I think it's a better car. Win Win.
As for my SVT, the money I paid for it wouldn't buy a very nice Honda. It also drives great, but if I was to have to replace its entire drivetrain, the car would still be very cheap compared to alternatives with the same fun factor.
In my experience, many owners of hondas are so proud to be honda owners that they exaggerate the reliability of their cars. I know people whom work in Honda dealerships and many of the garages that I go to are full of Hondas. According to the people I talk to in those locations, Contours are no less reliable than accords.
Mainstream Honda owners are often the type of people whom take their car to the dealership for everything and are used to paying $300-1,000 for 'standard maintenance' without really knowing what was done when they go in for oil changes. They're so trusting of Honda's brand and their cars are so much better than the last domestic car they owned or grew up with that they are acceptant of a lot as normal and therefore not noteworthy.
Another difference between Contour and Accord owners is that Accord owners had to pay more for their car and probably have a larger disposable income. I see a lot of financially strapped people on this forum whom let problems linger for way too long and seem to end up with greater problems and ultimately larger repair bills.
For the record, my 95 Contour has been a steal. It was cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and drives great. If it was to die tomorrow, I wouldn't feel ripped off because I've gotten so much value for what I've put in. A 95 accord at the time would have cost more to buy than the total cost of ownership of my Contour. And, I think it's a better car. Win Win.
As for my SVT, the money I paid for it wouldn't buy a very nice Honda. It also drives great, but if I was to have to replace its entire drivetrain, the car would still be very cheap compared to alternatives with the same fun factor.
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Ford value
Ford value
That was my thinking exactly when I purchased this car, but consider this. The value of anything is simply a function of demand relative to supply. Used Japanese cars cost more because people want them more than American iron. The Japanese have been far more successful at the important task of giving their customers what they want than American companies. In any business, the customer decides whether or not the company makes a profit. The successful business will be the one that is concerned primarily with providing value for their customers and, secondarily, with themselves. The Japanese have figured this out, Ford hasn't. Mechanically my Contour is still sound and should serve for another 5 years and have decent resale, but Ford screwed me on the wiring harness "campaign", and they have stopped making parts for it, making the car essentially worthless. They are not concerned with making sure this car gives me the greatest possible utility. The result is that we didn't even bother to stop at a Ford lot when we purchased a new car for my wife, we went to Toyota and Honda then paid cash for a new '07 Accord. When I buy my new truck this fall, we will probably do the same thing and it will most likely be a Tundra. Ford needs to get their head out of their tailpipe and start focusing on maximizing value (satisfaction) for their customers. That is the only way they are going to maximize the value of their cars and maybe take back some market share.
Ford value
That was my thinking exactly when I purchased this car, but consider this. The value of anything is simply a function of demand relative to supply. Used Japanese cars cost more because people want them more than American iron. The Japanese have been far more successful at the important task of giving their customers what they want than American companies. In any business, the customer decides whether or not the company makes a profit. The successful business will be the one that is concerned primarily with providing value for their customers and, secondarily, with themselves. The Japanese have figured this out, Ford hasn't. Mechanically my Contour is still sound and should serve for another 5 years and have decent resale, but Ford screwed me on the wiring harness "campaign", and they have stopped making parts for it, making the car essentially worthless. They are not concerned with making sure this car gives me the greatest possible utility. The result is that we didn't even bother to stop at a Ford lot when we purchased a new car for my wife, we went to Toyota and Honda then paid cash for a new '07 Accord. When I buy my new truck this fall, we will probably do the same thing and it will most likely be a Tundra. Ford needs to get their head out of their tailpipe and start focusing on maximizing value (satisfaction) for their customers. That is the only way they are going to maximize the value of their cars and maybe take back some market share.
Just be aware that Toyota being the biggest auto manufacturer now is also facing all the headaches the US auto manufacturers used to face.... When I buy my new truck this fall, we will probably do the same thing and it will most likely be a Tundra. ...
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Aut...dra_Recall_Could_Cost_Toyota.S173.A12413.html
Good luck on your new purchase(s). The 07 Accords have had many good reviews.
QC
QC
Toyota has had suspension, driveshaft and engine problems with their truck. The issue isn't necessarily that recalls happen, but what the company does about it. I have never been hosed by a Japanese automaker, but have been repeatedly screwed over by Ford dealerships. Based on personal experience, right or wrong, I have a lot more faith that Toyota will proactively step up and fix any problems with their product than I do Ford. That is why Toyotas cost more and Toyota is more profitable with greater market share. If Toyota screws up and doesn't aggressively deal with their issues, their customer base will lose faith, people will be willing to pay less for their vehicles, and they will lose profitability and market share.
QC
Toyota has had suspension, driveshaft and engine problems with their truck. The issue isn't necessarily that recalls happen, but what the company does about it. I have never been hosed by a Japanese automaker, but have been repeatedly screwed over by Ford dealerships. Based on personal experience, right or wrong, I have a lot more faith that Toyota will proactively step up and fix any problems with their product than I do Ford. That is why Toyotas cost more and Toyota is more profitable with greater market share. If Toyota screws up and doesn't aggressively deal with their issues, their customer base will lose faith, people will be willing to pay less for their vehicles, and they will lose profitability and market share.
Hi
I think this thread is very interesting. I own a 1995 Coutour and
a 1997 Honda Accord. I think the Countour can keep up with the Honda.
The Countour has 142k on it and I've had to
replace one emissions sensor (don't remember which one but it costs
$82 at Ford parts) and a transmission range sensor for $125.
I'm delighted with the reliability of the Contour. It survived a major
off-course agricultural driving experience on an Interstate in
Alabama during a heavy rainstorm. The front end damage was pretty
severe but after I put on new tires/wheels it was able to limp home
to have lots of bent front end parts replaced. I believe the design
is strong and will continue to drive this car. My only complaint is
that the temp gauge reads a little higher that I would like, what I
hear is common problem with Coutours. The advantage is that the car
costs virtually nothing to operate. Good mileage, virtually no repairs,
and low expenses. Here in Georgia (particularly Fulton County) you have
to pay the ad-valorem (sp) tax each year based on the value of the car.
Needless to say the 1995 Contour is almost off their charts, so I pay
$20 a year while my neighbor with his Expedition pays $300 yearly.
I'll keep the Contour even though the kids say they would't want to
ever be seen even riding in the car.
As for the CEL, in Georgia you cannot continue to drive it forever
with it on. Emissions checks yearly make you fix it in some way.
Mine went on once, when the emission sensor went bad, and the
code directed me right to the bad part. It wasn't rocket science.
Now for the 1997 Accord. This one has 135K and I haven't had any
real problems with it yet, except for a puncture in the radiator.
That was about $200 and 2 hours (my) labor. Reasonable to assume.
I believe the Accord has a great reputation, but my experience with
the Contour is that it is just a reliable and well designed. In fact by
comparison the Contour Zetec is DOHC 2.0L and the Honda is a 2.3L
SOHC. I think the Contour is easier to work on. Brakes are a snap
(except for the odd self adjusting mechanism) and I believe common
problems like belts and hoses are easier to fix on the Contour.
Just try doing a head gasket on a Eclipse/Neon 2.0L DOHC.
I even had a 1984 Accord with 179K and had only one minor problem,
left wheel bearing.
Yes- Honda has a good reputation. Haven't seen the CEL yet on
the Honda but when it happens I would bet the cost will be high to
repair. That said, I feel the the 1995 Contour will last for quite a while.
I've always owned cars with over 100K and found them to be just
as reliable as *newer" cars. You just have to get a sense of which are
the most unreliable parts. And that comes either from experience or
reading forums like this one. I'm not a FORD only person. I have a
Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Honda, Datsun (that's right, not a Nissan),
Ford, and Audi. I've also long list of GM cars.
Overall the Contour has held up with the best of them.
In my humble opinion I've had the most trouble with Chrysler products.
Regards--- Gary / Atlanta.
The snow is melting slowly but it's cold.....
I think this thread is very interesting. I own a 1995 Coutour and
a 1997 Honda Accord. I think the Countour can keep up with the Honda.
The Countour has 142k on it and I've had to
replace one emissions sensor (don't remember which one but it costs
$82 at Ford parts) and a transmission range sensor for $125.
I'm delighted with the reliability of the Contour. It survived a major
off-course agricultural driving experience on an Interstate in
Alabama during a heavy rainstorm. The front end damage was pretty
severe but after I put on new tires/wheels it was able to limp home
to have lots of bent front end parts replaced. I believe the design
is strong and will continue to drive this car. My only complaint is
that the temp gauge reads a little higher that I would like, what I
hear is common problem with Coutours. The advantage is that the car
costs virtually nothing to operate. Good mileage, virtually no repairs,
and low expenses. Here in Georgia (particularly Fulton County) you have
to pay the ad-valorem (sp) tax each year based on the value of the car.
Needless to say the 1995 Contour is almost off their charts, so I pay
$20 a year while my neighbor with his Expedition pays $300 yearly.
I'll keep the Contour even though the kids say they would't want to
ever be seen even riding in the car.
As for the CEL, in Georgia you cannot continue to drive it forever
with it on. Emissions checks yearly make you fix it in some way.
Mine went on once, when the emission sensor went bad, and the
code directed me right to the bad part. It wasn't rocket science.
Now for the 1997 Accord. This one has 135K and I haven't had any
real problems with it yet, except for a puncture in the radiator.
That was about $200 and 2 hours (my) labor. Reasonable to assume.
I believe the Accord has a great reputation, but my experience with
the Contour is that it is just a reliable and well designed. In fact by
comparison the Contour Zetec is DOHC 2.0L and the Honda is a 2.3L
SOHC. I think the Contour is easier to work on. Brakes are a snap
(except for the odd self adjusting mechanism) and I believe common
problems like belts and hoses are easier to fix on the Contour.
Just try doing a head gasket on a Eclipse/Neon 2.0L DOHC.
I even had a 1984 Accord with 179K and had only one minor problem,
left wheel bearing.
Yes- Honda has a good reputation. Haven't seen the CEL yet on
the Honda but when it happens I would bet the cost will be high to
repair. That said, I feel the the 1995 Contour will last for quite a while.
I've always owned cars with over 100K and found them to be just
as reliable as *newer" cars. You just have to get a sense of which are
the most unreliable parts. And that comes either from experience or
reading forums like this one. I'm not a FORD only person. I have a
Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Honda, Datsun (that's right, not a Nissan),
Ford, and Audi. I've also long list of GM cars.
Overall the Contour has held up with the best of them.
In my humble opinion I've had the most trouble with Chrysler products.
Regards--- Gary / Atlanta.
The snow is melting slowly but it's cold.....
my wifes 94 Camry has been one of the best cars we have ever owned. It has 196k on it and has survived with regular oil changes, and not much more. The trans still shifts smooth, and you can't even tell the engine is running its that quiet. Its just weird to me how some car makers make their cars to last, while others wear out much faster. My contour svt has 142k and has a SES, and lots of creaks and rattles.
Just my .02
Adam
Just my .02
Adam
Something to contemplate
Something to contemplate
You know, it might be a bit off topic, but consider. The salary you earn is your actual take home pay. Income taxes, Soc Sec, etc are paid by your employer. For an auto worker, the employer essentially pays up to a 100% incremental sales tax on wages. The "value" of any product in a free market is the total value of the labor content necessary for the most efficient producer to create that product, except for scarce materials like gold. Competition will not allow a higher price. Japan has a small income tax. If Ford sells into Japan, The cost of the Ford is "labor + big income tax + VAT". The cost of the Toyota is "labor + Small Income Tax + VAT". If the car is sold in the U.S., the cost of the Ford is "Labor + Big Income Tax". The cost of the Toyota is Labor + Small Income Tax. American labor costs a lot more than labor in other developed counties due to income tax, which increases the cost of producing the car. Toyota can put a lot more labor/resources into creating a squeak free car and happy customers than Ford can at a given price point. Ford exports much of it's assembly operations to other countries to compensate for this, but Ford is at a significant disadvantage. A progressive income tax means the low paying jobs will tend to stay here because the tax rate is lower on burger flippin jobs, about 20%, but high paying jobs will have to be outsourced overseas for Ford or other businesses to remain competitive. Something to consider when you decide which name to punch on the next election ballot, unless the youngsters in the listening audience actually enjoy flippin burgers.:crazy:
Something to contemplate
You know, it might be a bit off topic, but consider. The salary you earn is your actual take home pay. Income taxes, Soc Sec, etc are paid by your employer. For an auto worker, the employer essentially pays up to a 100% incremental sales tax on wages. The "value" of any product in a free market is the total value of the labor content necessary for the most efficient producer to create that product, except for scarce materials like gold. Competition will not allow a higher price. Japan has a small income tax. If Ford sells into Japan, The cost of the Ford is "labor + big income tax + VAT". The cost of the Toyota is "labor + Small Income Tax + VAT". If the car is sold in the U.S., the cost of the Ford is "Labor + Big Income Tax". The cost of the Toyota is Labor + Small Income Tax. American labor costs a lot more than labor in other developed counties due to income tax, which increases the cost of producing the car. Toyota can put a lot more labor/resources into creating a squeak free car and happy customers than Ford can at a given price point. Ford exports much of it's assembly operations to other countries to compensate for this, but Ford is at a significant disadvantage. A progressive income tax means the low paying jobs will tend to stay here because the tax rate is lower on burger flippin jobs, about 20%, but high paying jobs will have to be outsourced overseas for Ford or other businesses to remain competitive. Something to consider when you decide which name to punch on the next election ballot, unless the youngsters in the listening audience actually enjoy flippin burgers.:crazy:
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jmcgee2000svt
CEG'er
I have a Contour SVT with 130K on it, absolutely no issues yet.
We also have a 99 Mercury Cougar with 170K on it we have replaced a wheel bearing and an alternator on it. It runs perfect and I live in Indiana and would drive it to California tomorrow. I plan on getting 200+ out of both of my cars, and we are going to buy a 97 Explorer this weekend. My father-in-law has a '90 aerostar with 300K on it and its still running, he has changed the oil every 3K miles.
I have owned Hondas, and Mitsubishi's, as well as GM's. I have had nothing but repeated issues with all from sensors to pulley's to transmissions...etc. My brother as well has a Honda accord now and had an 86 accord, both with major vacuum/transmission issues.
My dad is an ASE mechanic and has been for over 30 yrs, my parents have always owned Fords, and my dad's profession has always been working at a Ford Dealership. I have choosen for the most part to own Ford's for the rest of my life...I have never had a bad Ford. I absolutely love Ford's.
Grant it any dealer no matter who/what will try and rip you off, My cousin worked as a service advisor for a Cadillac Dealership for 9 years, I seen them sell people stuff they would have never needed just to make a buck, the Dealer is there simply to make a profit and the car company shouldnt be looked down on because you have some idiots running a dealership.
I say when you are buying a car really check it out, we take very good care of our cars in my mind, do the basic needed maintance, and keep our oil changed, that is the main key to owning a life long vehicle no matter what the brand. Any car can be a lemon or have major issues.
We also have a 99 Mercury Cougar with 170K on it we have replaced a wheel bearing and an alternator on it. It runs perfect and I live in Indiana and would drive it to California tomorrow. I plan on getting 200+ out of both of my cars, and we are going to buy a 97 Explorer this weekend. My father-in-law has a '90 aerostar with 300K on it and its still running, he has changed the oil every 3K miles.
I have owned Hondas, and Mitsubishi's, as well as GM's. I have had nothing but repeated issues with all from sensors to pulley's to transmissions...etc. My brother as well has a Honda accord now and had an 86 accord, both with major vacuum/transmission issues.
My dad is an ASE mechanic and has been for over 30 yrs, my parents have always owned Fords, and my dad's profession has always been working at a Ford Dealership. I have choosen for the most part to own Ford's for the rest of my life...I have never had a bad Ford. I absolutely love Ford's.
Grant it any dealer no matter who/what will try and rip you off, My cousin worked as a service advisor for a Cadillac Dealership for 9 years, I seen them sell people stuff they would have never needed just to make a buck, the Dealer is there simply to make a profit and the car company shouldnt be looked down on because you have some idiots running a dealership.
I say when you are buying a car really check it out, we take very good care of our cars in my mind, do the basic needed maintance, and keep our oil changed, that is the main key to owning a life long vehicle no matter what the brand. Any car can be a lemon or have major issues.
todras
Pretty fly for a white guy *cowbell*
Take a peak at where dealers make profits. It's not selling cars. They make their $ on service my friends.
jmcgee2000svt
CEG'er
EXACTLY!
doink
doink
Sure, many dealers are out to make a buck rather than build a business. I'm not in the car business, but my impression is that Toyota keeps a much tighter reign on their dealers than Ford. My impression is that Ford treats them like suppliers. Toyota will work to improve their dealerships as an integrated part of their business model, Ford will squeeze them for the cheapest price on warranty repair, etc. I may be wrong, but my impression is that warranty service for Ford dealerships is a losing proposition, and doing warranty work on a car they didn't sell for a customer they will never see again is a negative for the bottom line. Warranty work is something they have to do, out of warranty customers they can doink as hard as they want. Just my observation for what it's worth.
doink
Sure, many dealers are out to make a buck rather than build a business. I'm not in the car business, but my impression is that Toyota keeps a much tighter reign on their dealers than Ford. My impression is that Ford treats them like suppliers. Toyota will work to improve their dealerships as an integrated part of their business model, Ford will squeeze them for the cheapest price on warranty repair, etc. I may be wrong, but my impression is that warranty service for Ford dealerships is a losing proposition, and doing warranty work on a car they didn't sell for a customer they will never see again is a negative for the bottom line. Warranty work is something they have to do, out of warranty customers they can doink as hard as they want. Just my observation for what it's worth.
ctmystique
Hard-core CEG'er
Anyway owning a Contour is an adventure, you know I heard that after you have owned one for three years you can, if you apply for it, get an associates degree in automotive technology at your local community college..... LOL :laugh: J/K
My new tag line.....
I think I'm going to apply today!
Aussie Ford
Hard-core CEG'er
Your welcome :laugh:
AF
AF
Yes - I agree that any car can be a lemon and others can be real gems.
Looks can be deceiving, my ugliest cars last the longest.
I once bought a car for $100, drove it for 4 years with no repairs other
than maintenance items and sold it for $400. I did the same with another.
Bought for $1000and sold it for $1,100 4 years later. Had a bidding war
going on when I was selling it.
On the other hand the used Eclipse I bought had everything going for it.
Regular maintenance, full service documentation, and a very successful
test drive. Once I got the title everything went wrong at once, from
wiring problems to timing belt to bent valves to power virtually every part
of the steering system, including the rack & pinion.
You just never know!!!
I've had all different types, Japanese, European, and USA. It doesn't seem
to matter the source, many times it is the luck of the draw.
My 1995 Contour has held up very well. No major issues and going strong.
It is a keeper, even though the family thinks the car is ugly.
I will say however that I've had really good luck with the Datsun 510.
That's Datsun, not Nissan. I believe the company went through a morphing
when the name was changed in the USA.
I've owned 5 of 510s. Even owned the same car twice (long story).
And my dad owned one that seemed to last forever. Inexpensive, light
weight, and a dream to work on. Not the safest car to ride in I'll admit.
Its the only car I have ever owned that
could do a U-turn on a narrow side street without backing up.
The most rugged car I've owned was a 1975 Buick Skyhawk.
That's the Buick version of the old Chevy Monza. It took tons of punishment
at the track and I could still drive it home every time. It weighed a lot
(2950 pounds) but it would not die. Bullet proof V6 and indestructable
drive train.
My motto is:
Never pay more for a car than the amount of cash you get cash out of
of an ATM machine.
Regards -- Gary
Atlanta -- still waiting for some significant rainfall.
Looks can be deceiving, my ugliest cars last the longest.
I once bought a car for $100, drove it for 4 years with no repairs other
than maintenance items and sold it for $400. I did the same with another.
Bought for $1000and sold it for $1,100 4 years later. Had a bidding war
going on when I was selling it.
On the other hand the used Eclipse I bought had everything going for it.
Regular maintenance, full service documentation, and a very successful
test drive. Once I got the title everything went wrong at once, from
wiring problems to timing belt to bent valves to power virtually every part
of the steering system, including the rack & pinion.
You just never know!!!
I've had all different types, Japanese, European, and USA. It doesn't seem
to matter the source, many times it is the luck of the draw.
My 1995 Contour has held up very well. No major issues and going strong.
It is a keeper, even though the family thinks the car is ugly.
I will say however that I've had really good luck with the Datsun 510.
That's Datsun, not Nissan. I believe the company went through a morphing
when the name was changed in the USA.
I've owned 5 of 510s. Even owned the same car twice (long story).
And my dad owned one that seemed to last forever. Inexpensive, light
weight, and a dream to work on. Not the safest car to ride in I'll admit.
Its the only car I have ever owned that
could do a U-turn on a narrow side street without backing up.
The most rugged car I've owned was a 1975 Buick Skyhawk.
That's the Buick version of the old Chevy Monza. It took tons of punishment
at the track and I could still drive it home every time. It weighed a lot
(2950 pounds) but it would not die. Bullet proof V6 and indestructable
drive train.
My motto is:
Never pay more for a car than the amount of cash you get cash out of
of an ATM machine.
Regards -- Gary
Atlanta -- still waiting for some significant rainfall.
kscontourkid
Veteran CEG'er
You know, it might be a bit off topic, but consider. The salary you earn is your actual take home pay. Income taxes, Soc Sec, etc are paid by your employer. For an auto worker, the employer essentially pays up to a 100% incremental sales tax on wages. The "value" of any product in a free market is the total value of the labor content necessary for the most efficient producer to create that product, except for scarce materials like gold. Competition will not allow a higher price. Japan has a small income tax. If Ford sells into Japan, The cost of the Ford is "labor + big income tax + VAT". The cost of the Toyota is "labor + Small Income Tax + VAT". If the car is sold in the U.S., the cost of the Ford is "Labor + Big Income Tax". The cost of the Toyota is Labor + Small Income Tax. American labor costs a lot more than labor in other developed counties due to income tax, which increases the cost of producing the car. Toyota can put a lot more labor/resources into creating a squeak free car and happy customers than Ford can at a given price point. Ford exports much of it's assembly operations to other countries to compensate for this, but Ford is at a significant disadvantage. A progressive income tax means the low paying jobs will tend to stay here because the tax rate is lower on burger flippin jobs, about 20%, but high paying jobs will have to be outsourced overseas for Ford or other businesses to remain competitive. Something to consider when you decide which name to punch on the next election ballot, unless the youngsters in the listening audience actually enjoy flippin burgers.:crazy:
i hate to make you eat your words but you are 100% correct. it is true american auto makers are at the disadvantage. the major problem with the contour is that is was built here in america. the price of labor compared to the quality of work sucks compared to other countries. if you go to europe you will find that ford is actually a major player in the auto industry. Ford is pretty much the work horse in england in particular. if the contour was imported as the mondeo built the same way with the same parts it would rival BMWs and Mercedes. but for the reasons you have explained it is hard for ford to make equally valuable cars for the same price as the asians. personally i swear by ford. i used to be a chrysler fan as a kid but then when i turned 14 and my father bought a 98 contour 4-cyl atx my outlook changed. when i turned 15 he passed the car on to me and i drove the piss out of it only having to replace the water pump on it. i didnt like the atx and so i slowly destroyed the tranny as an excuse to get a 5-speed v6 contour. with the tranny starting to slip i sold the car to my cousin with about 104k on the clock. the car is still running with a slipping tranny has been run over by a trash truck(side swiped) rear ended and many other things. the timing belt replaced at 130k and now has over 190k on the clock and is still going without question.
upon selling my 98 for $3K, i purchased a 99 se sport v6 5-speed for $3,800.00. full leather interior everything but a sunroof. the car had a slight alignment issue that i still have because of the previous owner running over a curb or something(bent right front strut) the only problems ive had were all because of my idiocy or the other idiots who live in my city. the only major issues ive had was a power steering pump going bad and it is still in the car as it is a very very slow leak. this leak has, due to idiot mechanics in this area, caused the car to eat 4 alternators in less than 2 years which had it been recognized by the first bunch of mechanics (not from ford!) would have saved me great amount of headache. this same car has gone through a lady backing into it causing 2k+ of damage (never fixed everything due to complications) including a messed up fender and a whole new steering rack. it was run off the road at 80+mph into mud which didnt even scratch it!!! it has been slid into a steel fence post and rear ended by a ranger pickup at about 25mph and many other idiocies not my fault. still goes without trouble.
i forgot to mention this car has gone through 3 autocross seasons now and i enjoy driving the piss out of it on a daily basis. this car has been one of the most incredible things that has ever happened to me and for anyone to say they suck compared to a POS Toyota can suck it.
rant over.
the point... ford is just as good or better than any of the other car companies out there. the thing people miss are the accomplishments that go untold of everyday. if the media loved ford as much as it loves toyota ford would be the greatest company on earth! (slight exaggeration)
ctmystique
Hard-core CEG'er
I will say however that I've had really good luck with the Datsun 510.
That's Datsun, not Nissan. I believe the company went through a morphing
when the name was changed in the USA.
I've owned 5 of 510s. Even owned the same car twice (long story).
And my dad owned one that seemed to last forever. Inexpensive, light
weight, and a dream to work on. Not the safest car to ride in I'll admit.
Its the only car I have ever owned that
could do a U-turn on a narrow side street without backing up.
Just wondering do you still have any 510s or parts. my son has one here in CT.
Datsun 510
Datsun 510
Hi - and thanks to all that have replied to my postings.
My Contour is running fine right now, no problems except for a slow leak
in the A/C unit, which is not a good thing for Atlanta. But I only drive the
car 15 miles per day to/from the park-and-ride.
As for the degree in auto technology from a local college, my best learning
experience with FORD cars (and one I don't want to repeat) is changing
the A/C evaporator core on a 1986 FORD Taurus. I did it twice.
Flat rate book says 6-hours but I could not get it down anywhere near that.
Just try it sometime. You end up using every tool in your toolbox and some
from your neighbor's as well.
Modern folklore says that when they build a (first generation) Taurus,
the first part on the assembly line is the A/C evaporator core, then they
build the car around it. I fully believe that is true.
Anyway- about the 510. Sadly I don't have any of them now. In my
younger days when I owned them I lived in rental properties so I did not
have a lot of driveway room and had to get rid of most. My dad took two
of then and drove them to the ground, which took nearly a decade, then
parted them out. I reget not holding on to them. I would have liked to
keep the '69 wagon.
My hope is that if I ever reach retirement I'll be able to get one to restore.
Maybe even do some competition events.
Regards -- Gary -- Atlanta.
Datsun 510
Hi - and thanks to all that have replied to my postings.
My Contour is running fine right now, no problems except for a slow leak
in the A/C unit, which is not a good thing for Atlanta. But I only drive the
car 15 miles per day to/from the park-and-ride.
As for the degree in auto technology from a local college, my best learning
experience with FORD cars (and one I don't want to repeat) is changing
the A/C evaporator core on a 1986 FORD Taurus. I did it twice.
Flat rate book says 6-hours but I could not get it down anywhere near that.
Just try it sometime. You end up using every tool in your toolbox and some
from your neighbor's as well.
Modern folklore says that when they build a (first generation) Taurus,
the first part on the assembly line is the A/C evaporator core, then they
build the car around it. I fully believe that is true.
Anyway- about the 510. Sadly I don't have any of them now. In my
younger days when I owned them I lived in rental properties so I did not
have a lot of driveway room and had to get rid of most. My dad took two
of then and drove them to the ground, which took nearly a decade, then
parted them out. I reget not holding on to them. I would have liked to
keep the '69 wagon.
My hope is that if I ever reach retirement I'll be able to get one to restore.
Maybe even do some competition events.
Regards -- Gary -- Atlanta.