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Manual proportioning valve question

Pole120

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Mar 15, 2004
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I've done away with all the ABS devices on the track car and I'm looking at installing an adjustable proportioning valve to customize brake bias. My question is, do i just run one valve on the rear line only to bring the back half's pressure down, or will both front and rear need valves for adjustment.
 
You only want to proportion the rear, you want to keep all the front brake. The idea of the prop valve is really to ensure that the rear doesn't lock up before the front.

However, the issue you are now going to find is that because the contour is a diagonal split system, you'll have to install TWO prop valves, one for each rear line, and somehow manage to keep them synchronized.
 
You only want to proportion the rear, you want to keep all the front brake. The idea of the prop valve is really to ensure that the rear doesn't lock up before the front.

However, the issue you are now going to find is that because the contour is a diagonal split system, you'll have to install TWO prop valves, one for each rear line, and somehow manage to keep them synchronized.

New lines will be run and it will no longer be diagonal split, should work, no? I have two lines coming off of the Master cylinder, On will feed front lines, the other the rears.
 
You can make it function, but you are going to have a hard time getting it right I think. Plus, in the event of a circuit failure, you're going to wish you hadn't done it that way. Honestly, if it were me, I'd have left the ABS in and let the EBC do it's thing, and not worry about it. Beyond that, I'd have started over from scratch for a full race car setup.
 
Honestly, I'd revert back to an ABS module from a later car. It would be BIG $$ for you to piece together a better actuation setup. Then just carefully choose your front and rear foundation brake pieces to keep your bias equivalent or very slightly more rear biased than stock. Catch me on AIM or PM me, and we can sort some particular foundation pieces for your needs . . . I'm assuming ultra low cost is still one of your main concerns, lol.
 
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hmm josh, interesting question. I havent put much thought into it for the same reasons Rara mentioned [if I lose brakes, I take a huge preference to just losing 2... hopefully].

anyways I am highly interested in publically hearing more thoughts/developments on this.

I do not have abs on my car [I've even gone so far as grinding the abs mounts off the hub assemblies], I originally had drums and swapped up to disks [courtousy of BLKOUTs demise], and the 260mm front rotors, I would like to be able to experiment with biases.
 
Rara and i discussed a lot about both my specific setup and components and getting the proper pieces to complement each other with the stock bias. It seems that keeping the ABS and stock bias control would be my best bet from our talks. I'm undecided as to exactly what the end product will be on my car.

For the sake of information, I've considered posting our conversation.

~Josh
 
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yes information, even just for informations sake is a good thing.

anyways I did have a quick question along the lines of this thread. The drum brake cont/cougs have what I've always assumed to be a proportioning valve between the hard and soft lines in the rear wheel well. Now I never put much thought into their exact purpose other than 'universally' was told to leave them be. Would replacing them with an adjustible valve be a viable option [please file that question under the hypothetical realm].
 
Drum brakes and disc brakes have vastly different pressure requirements. The extra valves in the drum brake cars are there to reduce the pressure to match what the drums need to actuate properly. A drum brake is to some extent self-energizing, which means it doesn't require nearly as much pressure as a disc brake. If you were to remove the valves on the drum brakes, you would be locking the rear tires a lot and very badly. If you switch to Disc brakes, and have all of the right hardware to go with them (do you have the right ABS module, etc.) only then can you drop those extra pressure limiting valves.

In regards to the discussions that Josh and I have had offline, there really isn't a whole lot beyond what has been posted already. But I'll see if I can summarize.
First, deleting the ABS is rarely a good idea. Even on a race car, ABS will prevent you from flat spotting expensive race slicks . . . Plus, without ABS, you have to be 100% attentive to your braking 100% of the time, and even the best drivers brain fade sometimes, and while some of us here may be halfway decent on a track, I'm pretty sure none of us can be ranked among the best in the world (unless Schumi started posting here and I didn't know. . . ). ABS is a safety net, and probably should be left in place, especially if you aren't trying to race the car competitively (where that extra 10th of a second may make a difference). Also, the electronic proportioning used in the later cars at least (called EBC) has a better control of the rear brake bias than any aftermarket bias valve you can buy, even the big $$ racing parts. The EBC can dynamically control the rear pressure at all stages of a braking event and vary them as necessary to give you the maximum braking without locking up. Given the very large front weight bias of the contour (and most FWD cars) the rear brakes do very very little in relation to the front, so you want to use the rears as much as possible to take some of the thermal load off the front brakes and keep the car balanced, but at the same time, during a stop the load transfers forward even more, which leaves less and less traction for the rear tires for the brakes to use. Switching to a basic aftermarket adjustable prop valve will leave a TON of brake usage on the table if you set it to where the car is actually safe to drive. Not to mention the need to use one valve in each rear line and to keep them synchronized somehow.
Now, I don't mean to imply that the Contour ABS/EBC is the greatest in the world, just that to get to something better would require a budget of significantly more than anyone on this board would be willing to pay, and would require a car on the level of one of the ProDrive BTCC mondeos for it to actually make a difference.

Aside from that, Josh and I talked about some of his caliper and rotor choices, and basically I just cautioned him about keeping the same hydrualic ratios between the master cylinder and calipers as the stock parts have, otherwise the pedal feel and line pressures will be garbage. Also, going any larger than the warmonger rear rotor kit won't be much of a benefit, because the EBC will end up taking away more line pressure in hard braking situations. Oh, and that brake pad area has very little to do with the amount of brake force generated, but does play a factor in pad life and some other secondary concerns.
 
The only question that remains for me at this point is.....

I have a 98 and 00 ABS module, is either better to use than the other with the mention of EBC changes in later years.
 
Drum brakes and disc brakes have vastly different pressure requirements. The extra valves in the drum brake cars are there to reduce the pressure to match what the drums need to actuate properly. A drum brake is to some extent self-energizing, which means it doesn't require nearly as much pressure as a disc brake. If you were to remove the valves on the drum brakes, you would be locking the rear tires a lot and very badly. If you switch to Disc brakes, and have all of the right hardware to go with them (do you have the right ABS module, etc.) only then can you drop those extra pressure limiting valves.

This statement concerns me. I was about to perform a drum to disc conversion on my car, but now you have me second guessing my plans. Should I now remove the proportioning valves to install the disc brakes? (No ABS on my car)
 
Honestly, I don't know the specifics of the earlier non-EBC cars (my CSVT is a 2000) but if you are going to switch to discs, you can remove the inline prop valves for the drums, as long as you add back in the correct prop valve for the disc brakes. I wish I had more details for you, but I've just never worked on the brake actuation on any of the earlier contours.
 
This statement concerns me. I was about to perform a drum to disc conversion on my car, but now you have me second guessing my plans. Should I now remove the proportioning valves to install the disc brakes? (No ABS on my car)

My early 98 SVT does not have EBD. If I understand correctly, EBD wasn't part of the Contour ABS system until either 99 or 00.

My 98 SVT has pressure reducing valves. The valves are a different part number for cars with ABS. As I remember it from the recall on the pressure reducing valves, the same part number was used with or without read disc brakes.

So, when you do the rear disc conversion, make sure to retain the pressure reducing valves, and make sure you use the correct ones, according to if you have ABS or not.
 
My early 98 SVT does not have EBD. If I understand correctly, EBD wasn't part of the Contour ABS system until either 99 or 00.

My 98 SVT has pressure reducing valves. The valves are a different part number for cars with ABS. As I remember it from the recall on the pressure reducing valves, the same part number was used with or without read disc brakes.

So, when you do the rear disc conversion, make sure to retain the pressure reducing valves, and make sure you use the correct ones, according to if you have ABS or not.

I recall reading something like that in a how-to on NECO, but it was a long time ago. I recon I'll move forward with my plans and swap the valves if needed. From what I'm reading here, the solution will be relatively simple for a dumbed down brake system like the one in my Mystique.

Thanks guys!
 
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