injectors/MAF for 3.0

[Bradness]

As my Tour is not an SVT (it's an early too), I need some advice regarding injectors. I presently have 3 different coloured injectors which may or may not be suitable. I have the correct later type return style rail.

First, I have a set of 8 orange injectors (& harness) from a 98 5.0 litre. From what I've found out these are 19 lb. Then I got a set of 6 ivory injectors which came with the 01 3.0 Taurus motor. Unfortunately, 3 of the harness clips were broken. Not sure what flow rating they are. Finally, I have a set of green injectors which came with a BAT LIM. No harness for these and unsure of flow rating. Anyone got info?

Also, will my early 2.5 MAF be suitable? The casting appears to be the same as the SVT types. What about the black box/sensor?

 

[BrApple]

the green injectors should be returnless 19# injectors as used in 2k SVTs ...

also the SE MAF and SVT MAF are the same

 

[Blackcoog]

Since you stated that you have an early Contour you probably have a return fuel system so I'd say the orange injectors are your only option unless you cut your injector plugs off and solder on the newer style plugs for the other injectors. You should verify what fuel system you have before you do anything though.

 

[Bradness]

I did mention that I already have the correct fuel rail. Yes, that means a return type from a 1998 V6.

Now is there a difference between a return and returnless injector? As I understand it, the only difference is the rail and the pump. The green injectors came c/w a return type rail.

Yes I also know that I will have to splice/solder new connectors for the injectors I use as my early has the side feed injector connector. That is why I mentioned that I have a good harness for the orange V8 injectors, no harness for the green puppies and a harness for the 6 ivory ones but half the connectors are broken. I also noted that spray portion of the pintle is slightly different comparing the orange to ivory injectors. Ivory injectors are for an 3.0 oval port.

Also, yes I know that MAF castings are the same from a visual examination. What about the sensor? Anyone who can post the p/n from an SVT maf sensor?

 

[Blackcoog]

The injectors themselves return or returnless should be the same other than the plug (if they are the same size), which is why people can splice in connectors for the proper injector. You can also buy jumpers which will convert from the old plug to the new plug style. Honestly since you have return injectors and a return harness use those. Splicing those pig tails on sucks and can cause issues depending on how connect the wires up and wrap them.

 

[Bradness]

So does anyone know the flow rating for the green injectors?

Found a 96 SHO at the local wreckers today which still had the motor. The injectors were exactly the same as the orange ones I've got from a 5.0 and it's a return system. It also has the IMRC box like the Tours and I know it uses the 2.5 pistons and rods.

If only I could use that awesome intake manifold...

 

[Reebs]

also the SE MAF and SVT MAF are the same

Not at all.

Actually, according to somethings I have heard along with some data I have seen, the SE MAFs can flow a little more than the SVT MAFs, but they are different MAF's nonetheless. You will be plenty fine with the stock SE MAF for a 3L as long as you don't go FI, actually, even then you can get away with a stock MAF with low boost. The stock MAF with make tuning easier as well.

 

[timeless420]

Brad,

Post up the PN# on those SHO injectors (may as well post the rest too) and I'll compare them to the SHO injectors I have in the basement. Other than knowing that the orange return style ones from an SVT are 19# and the green returnless ones are 19# you are playing a guessing game. You don't want to end up like lots of others who thought the creme coloured ones from the later Escape motors were 24# and were really not.

 

[BrApple]

Not at all.

I was going on the fact that the engineering numbers and part numbers are the same iirc

 

[Bradness]

The engineering no.'s and the Ford p/n's are not the same. They share the middle portion (forgot what it's official term is) of the p/n. I tried taking engrg no.'s to the Ford parts guy and he couldn't help although they do provide "clues".

Evan: The orange injectors I have are at the rebuilder for cleaning and balancing. Pretty sure the p/n was F6VE-A5A-almost the same as the SVT injectors. I didn't pull any from the SHO as the wrecker was attempting to sell the motor whole, at least at this time. I do not need 24 lb. injectors as I'm happy with the 230-235 that the 19 lb will support. The pintle caps are way different compared to the ivory 3.0 ones which are similiar to the side feed caps.

 

[BrApple]

The engineering no.'s and the Ford p/n's are not the same. .

I know the numbers themselves are not the same but if you look up each number for the SE and SVT MAF they are the same when comparing a SE MAF to a SVT MAF ... I posted that info here somewhere before ...

from over on fco and ford

SVT
NAME/DESCRIPTION ENGINEERING NO. SERVICE NO.
SENSOR ASSY., (Mass Airflow) 97BB 12B579-AA F7RZ 12B579-AA

SE
NAME/DESCRIPTION ENGINEERING NO. SERVICE NO.
SENSOR ASSY., (Mass Airflow) 97BB 12B579-AA F7RZ 12B579-AA

 

[Bradness]

That's very interesting. I have been led to believe that the MAF is calibrated to work with XX flow rated injectors. SE's did not use the 19 lb injectors that SVT's came with...

The engrg no. on the sensor for the OEM MAF from my SE is: 94BB 12B579 CA. My understanding is that the CA suffix is what identifies 1 sensor from another (application).

 

[Avey]

Any chance the spray pattern of the orange injectors you have are not optimal? I once put in a set of orange 19lb retunless injectors out of a 4.6L Towncar, I swtiched out the plugs aswell. It ran but something didn't feel right, I then got a set of green returnless 19lb injectors out of a SVT and the car felt perfect. Just something to consider. From what I read the SVT injectors were designed to spray more directly into the head because of the injector location and the 4.6L injectors were designed to spray wider which inturn could cause the fuel to hit the walls of the head leading into the combustion chamber and at partial throttle etc it wouldn't be as smoooth.

Initially I had 24lb injectors out of a 99 Sable which had the correct spray pattern, the car ran smooth but was obviously too rich.

Are you running a port matched 3L?

BTW my Mystique had the exact MAF your car has and it worked fine. The injectors are calibrated at the ECU.

 

[Bradness]

Orange 19 lb injectors I have are from a 98 5.0/302. I will be using a 98 SVT return type LIM and fuel rail and port matching the cylinder heads.

You say the ECU handles the injectors-my ECU is calibrated for 17 lb side feed injectors.

 

[warmonger]

IMO the spray patter issue may be an issue but I think it is a small one, if even noticeable. I say this because I've used both types on split ports and not had idle, cruise or WOT problems caused by it. I've had issues on a first start but usually it was vacuum leak related and I fixed them quickly and after that the cars have run fine.
I wouldn't mix and match them though.

 

[Avey]

Yeah I really didn't expect it to be an issue but it seemed to be for me, it could have been a bad injector? It would idle fine and WOT would be fine, maybe a little slower, partial throttle cruising would be fine but it's when you would stay in a gear and go to pass or give like 40% throttle it just didn't feel dead smooth like it usually was.

My point was if you potentially have the correct injectors made specifically for your manifold and you can verify they are 19lb injectors vs using 19lb injectors that fit your plugs but are not spefically made to work with your manifold I would go with the returnless ones and change the plugs. As far as I know there were no other green returnless injectors used by Ford besides the SVT specific ones which are 19lbs for sure but you'd have to get part numbers to be sure.

The MAF is not calibrated for the injectors, the ECU is so yes it is expecting 17lb injectors so if you throw in 19lbs it will be just out of the ECUs learning curve and will run rich. You either need a retune to tell the ECU you have 19 lbs injectors or for me I ran a SAFC to pull the rest of the fuel, this was verified on a dyno with a wideband. Put down 201 WHP with stock SE cams.


Now I'm driving a E30 with 2.7L stroker and I can tell you that stock 17lb Contour injectors work great with it, it's running on Megasquirt. I'm using the stock Contour coilpack to run it too, running a EDIS-6 module. I think it would have been pretty cool to put a Megasquirt on the Mystique, dirt cheap stand alone but very powerful. It's MAF compatible now and could work all the stock sensors on a Contour just would need a EDIS module out of an explorer/Aerostar etc to utilize the factory ignition system or you can fire the coils with coil drivers on the Megasquirt directly but I wouldn't. I'm even running the Multispark option. Now I need to find a set of Motorcraft platinums that fit in my head.

Running dual 16x16 VE maps and 12x12 spark map.

 

[Bradness]

My point was if you potentially have the correct injectors made specifically for your manifold and you can verify they are 19lb injectors vs using 19lb injectors that fit your plugs but are not spefically made to work with your manifold I would go with the returnless ones and change the plugs.

My car is return type system so going to a returnless is a NO-GO. As I mentioned already, I have the correct 19 lb injectors to fit the rail and the wiring harness/connectors too. Comparing the p/n's: the 19 lb SVT ones are F6VE A5C vs. F6VE A5A for the ones I've got. I suspect the difference is the electrical connector although I haven't got my hands on a set of SVT ones to compare yet.

Only time I ever had problems with injectors was when the rebuilder used the wrong pintle caps (which were too long) and adversely affected the spray pattern.

Last time I checked Megasquirt would only do batch injector firing, not Sequential. That turned me off right there.

 

[Avey]

My car is return type system so going to a returnless is a NO-GO. As I mentioned already, I have the correct 19 lb injectors to fit the rail and the wiring harness/connectors too. Comparing the p/n's: the 19 lb SVT ones are F6VE A5C vs. F6VE A5A for the ones I've got. I suspect the difference is the electrical connector although I haven't got my hands on a set of SVT ones to compare yet.

Only time I ever had problems with injectors was when the rebuilder used the wrong pintle caps (which were too long) and adversely affected the spray pattern.

Last time I checked Megasquirt would only do batch injector firing, not Sequential. That turned me off right there.

No I just meant use the returnless green ones and change the plugs to the rounded returnless type and use them in your return rail if you can verify they are SVT 19s.

Well right now you can only play with the injector staging as you are limited to two injector drivers. New code is coming out that will allow you to run semi-sequential or full sequential if you utilize a cam sensor and do a couple hardware mods to the ecu. My E30 was batch fired from the factory, I wonder how much of an advantage going full sequential will be once I'm turboed? I can tell you N/A it drives better than the factory ECU with the Megasquirt.