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noob help ('00 SVT content)

E

EWAustin

New CEG'er
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
12
Hi Everyone,
Here's the long and short of it. About 9 months ago my girlfriend bought a 2000 Contour SVT. Great car, she loves it.
But, over the last 2-3 months the performance has been going downhill sharply. Now it won't pull past about 3500rpm and it pings above 3700rpm under any load at all. I replaced the plugs at 108k miles and they looked to be factory originals. The gap was about double what it should be. I replaced the wires at the same time as the resistance was too high. This smoothed out the engine, but didn't fix the performance problems. The air filter looks brand new (it was about 10k miles ago) and I replaced the fuel filter also. All of these small changes helped the low rpm performance, but did NOTHING for the high RPM problems. At this point I was afraid of the Cat being plugged. An hour at the dealer confirmed my fears and it is the Cat (or pre-Cats). They offered to see which Cat(s) it is for an additional fee, but I declined.

In digging around online I found the MSDS headers and the BAT high-flow catalytic converter/Y-pipe. It seems like the best option at this point as the parts can be had for a fraction of the cost at the dealer and there will be a performance improvement over stock parts.
So, has anyone here used these parts before? How do they work? Is the fitment good or does it require some "creative engineering"? Are there better alternatives?
Also, having the oxygen sensors immediately after the pre-cats, will the headers throw a check engine light?

Also, her shocks are just about shot also, I was looking at the Bilsteins from BAT also, any experience with these? I had them on my 325iS and loved them. Are there other shocks I should consider?

Thanks in advance,
-Eric

Here is her car in case anyone is curious:
761819427_d7bd1e0856.jpg



EDIT:
Headers are here: http://www.msdsinc.com/new_H0810.htm
Cat is here: http://64.202.180.37/files/cexhst.pdf
Shocks are here: http://64.202.180.37/files/csusp.pdf
 
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You will need MIL eliminators if you use the headers I think. You can build them yourself of pay a CEG'er to do them for you...cheap! I would think that would be the best way to go, the MSDS headers etc. But it is a little tight getting to the manifolds. Should take out the radiator for the front one and a bunch of flex joints and extentions for the rear one. Both can be gotten to from under neath the car. You might as well clean the UIM and LIM while you are doing it....gives you a liiiitle more room up top.

Or you can gut the precats (fairly easy) and use the MILS.
 
Sounds like the secondaries aren't opening. There is a cable that runs from a box on the front valve cover to under the throttle body and it should be moving around 3500 rpm. Maybe the cable broke since it doesn't sound like there is a code.
 
You can hear the secondaries open just before the power drops way off, so I'm pretty sure that's not it. Would be great if it was though, I'll check it to be sure.
 
svtavino said:
Sounds like the secondaries aren't opening. There is a cable that runs from a box on the front valve cover to under the throttle body and it should be moving around 3500 rpm. Maybe the cable broke since it doesn't sound like there is a code.
Click to expand...

this was my first thought also, do verify that they are openning as there would be no power in the upper rpm range if not ...


as for MSDS headers, yes, yes many people have them :laugh: . they are a bolt on replacement for the stock manifolds. I suggest new harware, gaskets and use the stock y-pipe, the Bat design isn't the best. With the MSDS headers they bolt up like stock manifolds.
 
How hard is it to gut the pre-cats? From looking at the underside of the car it looked like the back wouldn't be too hard, but the front would be a pain because of the 90 degree curve right afterwards.
 
Is it possible that the secondaries not opening could cause the pinging though?
 
EWAustin said:
How hard is it to gut the pre-cats? From looking at the underside of the car it looked like the back wouldn't be too hard, but the front would be a pain because of the 90 degree curve right afterwards.
Click to expand...


you need to srill a whole in the bottom at the bend so that you can use anything you like to break up the material and then use a vacuum to get it out ... then weld or tap and use a screw to close up the manifold ...
 
If I'm going to even consider just gutting the pre-cats then I should probably just pay the extra money to have the dealer determine exactly which cat(s) are causing the problem, so I don't waste my time on the pre-cats if it's only the main cat and vice versa
 
EWAustin said:
If I'm going to even consider just gutting the pre-cats then I should probably just pay the extra money to have the dealer determine exactly which cat(s) are causing the problem, so I don't waste my time on the pre-cats if it's only the main cat and vice versa
Click to expand...

or save the money from the dealer and put it towards headers :)
 
Thanks for now guys (and girls?) I gotta go, but if anyone else has any insight, please leave a message after the tone.

beeeeeeeeeep
 
well do you have any codes? the pre-cats should turn the CEL on ....

to check if its the main cat disconnect it from the y-pipe and run the car, if it runs better then its the main cat, if no difference its the pre-cats ... you can also remove the upper O2 sensors and run the car to see if it runs better also ... if it does the pre-cats are plugged, just make sure you do something to protect everything around the O2 sensor from the heat ...
 
Check your fuel pressure too before you go throwing money at the car. Late 99's and 2000's have a damn near 100% failure rate on fuel pumps. If you do have a clogged cat, it is most likely a pre-cat since they come before the main cat and will usually clog first. Do what Brapple suggested for checking them before you do anything. If you choose to have the dealer replace them, be ready to tap into your future kids college fund because it is not cheap at all. As far as doing it yourself, headers will give you the most gain, but gutting them would be the easiest thing to do since you don't have to remove the rear manifold, which is the hardest to take off. There is how-to for doing it. If you search the old forums, you should find it.
 
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There is no CEL, but my understanding was that there is no guarantee that the pre-cats would trigger a CEL.

The dealer tested the fuel pressure and said it was good. The receipt said 38psi, not sure if this was at idle or if it even fluctuates on this car.

I haven't been able to double check that the secondaries are opening, but like I said before, the intake tone of the engine changes significantly right about 3500rpm, so I'm pretty sure that they are. If this is the problem, how would this cause pinging?

As for the shocks, if it were my car I'd be all over the Konis, but she doesn't want to spend that much money just yet. $175 each is pretty pricey. I had Konis on my old MR2 and loved them. BAT has the Bilsteins for $125 each. Are there any alternatives I should consider?

And about that college fund, the dealer quoted $1700... Ouch...
 
Re shocks - I put Bilsteins on my 2000 SVT with BAT springs - I really like them, and would recommend them to anyone - very sure feel, tracks great. Good luck! An SVT is a great ride.
 
x2 for the secondaries not opening.

The cats being plugged is highly unlikely.

Problems with the fuel pump are also very likely. There has been so many problems with the fuel pump module inlet screen being plugged that you should pull the pump and throw away the inlet screen just for drill. If it hasn't plugged yet, its just a matter of time until it does.

The fuel pump pressure reading is useless unless it is taken when the car is acting up.
 
Big Jim said:
x2 for the secondaries not opening.

The cats being plugged is highly unlikely.

Problems with the fuel pump are also very likely. There has been so many problems with the fuel pump module inlet screen being plugged that you should pull the pump and throw away the inlet screen just for drill. If it hasn't plugged yet, its just a matter of time until it does.

The fuel pump pressure reading is useless unless it is taken when the car is acting up.
Click to expand...

I know that it is a dealer saying this, but didn't they say that the cats were bad?
 
The dealer did say that the cats are bad.

I don't know if the fuel pressure reading was taken at idle or while the car was in motion, ie, while it was acting up.
Does anyone know if the fuel pressure is constant in this car or if it rises with RPM?

How is it possible that the secondaries not opening could cause the engine to ping?

If the cable that opens the secondaries is going (or gone) bad, wouldn't that result in an instant change in the engine behavior? This problem eased in slowly, and probably started well before my girlfriend bought the car. Having never driven an SVT Contour before I thought the engine was supposed to be biased towards the lower end of the rev range as it was in February when I drove the car last.
 
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