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the infamous spec

So it's Tuesday evening and I still don't have the measurement. I think this guy at Napa is avoiding me. Sheesh.

You'll probably be right on with a machine shop contracted to Ford. Sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

Please post the measurement if you can get it. I will do the same...if I can get it!
 
what he basically said is that these masurements are rarely posted anywhere. when he gets a used flywheel that he has to resurface, he doesn't really need the original dimensions to know how much the distance is. how come??? well here is why:
turns out that the clutch disk area is smaller than the main contact area ofthe flyhweel. therefore, when a flywheel has been on a car, say for 60-100k miles, the disk itself had removed a slight layer of the flywheel's mating surface. thus, the "step" is getting bigger/thicker. because the area of the clutch is smaller, it does not take away a layer of the entire mating area. instead, it leaves a very tiny and narrow "lip" on the outer edge of the mating area (right next to the mounting surface are/edge), and also leaves a bigger/wider area near the bolts of the flywheel. in turn, these two areas are never affected by the friction of the disk over the years/milage. so what he does, is he measures to the thausands, the thicknes of the "step", using this tiny edge, which was never touched by the disk. knowing that this lip is the original unafectted area and thicknes of the flyhweel, after measuring he knows what the original thicknes of the "step" was. then, he resurfaces both planes (the mounting and mating surfaces) and keeps the thicknes of the "step" the same as it was before (when he measured it) he did the turning. makes sense? right.

now, my flywheel has been resurfased before, but only the mating area was. however the stupid idiot that did it, did not even resurface the entire mating area, instead, he resurfaced the area only where the clutch made contact. so this original edge/lip was still there, so he was able to measure it. he also had some specs from the regular contour flywheel and the numbers were almost identical. so he is pretty sure in what he is saying.
on top of that, we could notice that the spec clutch disk did not even touch the flywheel at its entire surface. in otherwords, mine was machined under angle (was not mounted properly on the flywheel grider when it was first machined) which contributed to an uneven resurfacing. the result was that the clutch never made a flat contact with the flywheel, and probably that was the cause that it broke on me after 5000 miles. this so far is only an assumtion, but he will resurface the flywheel tomorrow and he will be able to tell me if this is true or not...if it is, i would really want to kick that idiot's azz, because this stupid mistake of his costed me a lot. a week without a car. 12 hours of work, plus around $400 for new clutch kit and resurfacing...i will be reaaaaally maad...:(
 
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That makes sense. So if a flywheel is brand new, does it need to be resurfaced or is it just when installing a new clutch?
 
if the flywheel is new..no, it doesn't,,i guess. if it is a used flywheel and you are puting a new clutch on it, yes you need to resurface it.

just got mine from the machince shop. it looks pretty good, but we will see how it performs. i will work on my car all night long i guess. he said that the step is around 12mm or in inches, he measured it to be 0.472.
he said that it wasn't done so bad the first time, in terms of the angle it was machined at. he expected it to be worse, but it wasn't centered well, so i duno what to think anymore.
 
i just ordered a new OEM svt flywheel this morning so when i put in my spec stage 2 i don't have to wait for it to be resurfaced, but anyway i will check all the specs on it when i get it since it will be new, maybe that will help everyone.
 
Who would have guessed. Not Spec's fault. :idea: Some other CEG's could have had faulty ones but I'm thinking 1/2 the ppl with issues is installer error.
 
todras, like i said, the guy said that mine wasnt as bad as he expected. he said it is possible, but he wasn't 100% sure. Neither am I. All i know is that the clutch did not contact the entire flywheel surface all around. but why did t hat happen? i don't know.
 
Well my flywheel is brand spankin' new, so I guess I don't have an excuse for mine slipping so badly.:blackeye: Could a slipping clutch damage my flywheel at all?
 
Well my flywheel is brand spankin' new, so I guess I don't have an excuse for mine slipping so badly.:blackeye: Could a slipping clutch damage my flywheel at all?


i believe since it is slipping that it would be creating extra heat which could damage the fw ...
 
if the flywheel is new..no, it doesn't,,i guess. if it is a used flywheel and you are puting a new clutch on it, yes you need to resurface it.

just got mine from the machince shop. it looks pretty good, but we will see how it performs. i will work on my car all night long i guess. he said that the step is around 12mm or in inches, he measured it to be 0.472.
he said that it wasn't done so bad the first time, in terms of the angle it was machined at. he expected it to be worse, but it wasn't centered well, so i duno what to think anymore.

It shouldn't. If in doubt, check flywheel runout.
 
That makes sense. So if a flywheel is brand new, does it need to be resurfaced or is it just when installing a new clutch?

Very often it is not necessary to surface a flywheel when replacing a clutch. It depends on the condition of the flywheel. Most of the time when I have replaced a clutch the flywheel wasn't touched.

That said, it is probably a good idea to surface the flywheel on high performance applications.
 
Who would have guessed. Not Spec's fault. :idea: Some other CEG's could have had faulty ones but I'm thinking 1/2 the ppl with issues is installer error.

Wow! How scientific. Lets just say, as we have in the past, 100% of the SPEC issues are due to installer error - cause it is so.........circular logig I suspose....

Go ahead, send me my free t-shirt - I am now SPEC's boooyyy.........

Jeff
 
Let me be as straight forward as I can be. Spec messed up with me and I got screwed. Even if you try to say there was a flywheel issue with the first clutch with a 18,000 failure the second one you cant. New everything, trans, flywheel the Spec Stage 1 clutch. The side facing away from the flywheel is what fell apart. Think about what that side is in contact with, who makes it!! So if your gonna come in and tell me im wrong and made a mistake, and need to admit I am wrong. Well guess what......I am sorry....That I ever used Spec to begin with..

WE got it....You had a real clutch failure, at least once if not twice. Sorry. Now we just want to get to the bottom of it and if it turns out the clutches really suck then we'll be honest and post it. One persons experience is valuable but it doesn't make or break the whole product line.
This is starting to remind me of the Redline MTF thread.... :groan: :blackeye:
 
todras, like i said, the guy said that mine wasnt as bad as he expected. he said it is possible, but he wasn't 100% sure. Neither am I. All i know is that the clutch did not contact the entire flywheel surface all around. but why did t hat happen? i don't know.


did you make sure there was no dirt or metal shavings on the back of the flywheel where it mounts to the crankshaft? Did you wire brush the back of the crankshaft and the back of the flywheel to insure that it was mounted "Truly Flush"?

These things are all important. If the flywheel was not surfaced correctly AND if the flywheel was not perfectly flush when mounted then you could have contact issues with the disk.

Also, I agree that within a milimeter or so the clutch disk will still work and grip fine but you are for sure going to lose some clamping pressure if that distance is bigger than factory.
 
i agree for distance and the clamping power. yeah. clutch will not last like 100k miles. sure.
yes, the back of the flywheel was cleaned perfectly. crankshaft was also clean. even cleaned them with brake cleaner.

i know that many people have had good experience with these clutches, that's why i got it on the first place. then, just back luck, it turned out that i had bad luck with it and although there are many variables that could have contributed to the failure, i think i have the right to ***** a little and be mad for a day or two. right?
now from what i see, is that all people here take one side or the other. if you (warmonger) for example give evidences and suggestions that always rule out the possibility of a defective clutch. others put too much attention to how much the clutch sucks. i think the right thing to be done (in the case of my clutch only) is for one to consider ALL the facts and then make a conclusion. And again, my experience like warmonger said, should not talk for all others. but that's why these forums are here. people to share information and experiences and to play devil's advocate...let the people who read the posts make their own conclusion.
 
I would really be courious about what is going on with the pressure plate on the failed clutches that it was reported that the pedal effort suddenly became very easy. I wonder if something happened to the diaphragm, or maybe to the cover at the diaphragm fulcrum point. A loss of clamping pressure from a failure here would explain a lot.
 
i agree for distance and the clamping power. yeah. clutch will not last like 100k miles. sure.
yes, the back of the flywheel was cleaned perfectly. crankshaft was also clean. even cleaned them with brake cleaner.

i know that many people have had good experience with these clutches, that's why i got it on the first place. then, just back luck, it turned out that i had bad luck with it and although there are many variables that could have contributed to the failure, i think i have the right to ***** a little and be mad for a day or two. right?
now from what i see, is that all people here take one side or the other. if you (warmonger) for example give evidences and suggestions that always rule out the possibility of a defective clutch. others put too much attention to how much the clutch sucks. i think the right thing to be done (in the case of my clutch only) is for one to consider ALL the facts and then make a conclusion. And again, my experience like warmonger said, should not talk for all others. but that's why these forums are here. people to share information and experiences and to play devil's advocate...let the people who read the posts make their own conclusion.

I don't understand what you mean up there. Are you saying I'm always trying to say its NOT a defective clutch? I'm not saying that. I'm only saying you must eliminate every variable you can control before you can say with reasonable accuracy that it is a clutch failure and not your errors....and this is only so you can hold off the naysayers about the whole install error thing. I have not said you or anyone installed the clutch wrong. I on the other hand have just posted the questions like, "did you do this this this... etc" to help you eliminate possibilities so that when you do come to the conclusion the clutch was defective....you are credible at that point. Same thing you would need to do to make your case with Spec anyway.

I also might jump up and call BS on someone who says "All spec clutches suck" or "all oils of this type suck" because they haven't done their homework to eliminate all those variables. I won't say you are wrong...I'll say you aren't credible until you actually eliminate those variables and show how you eliminated those variables that could be from outside error.
 
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