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Author Topic: sway bars
5speedSE170HP
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posted July 09, 2002 12:05 AM      Profile for 5speedSE170HP     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
what size combo front and rear sway bars should be used for optimal handling for auto X. dont want oversteer. should the back just be upgraded and leave the front. need input.
Posts: 18 | From: warren MI | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
SVTCole
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posted July 09, 2002 09:41 AM      Profile for SVTCole     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If you put a larger rear sway bar on, you will have MORE oversteer. The car is neutral now. Either do both or get a fully integrated kit with springs and sway bars and bushings etc. You can't make any change without leaving stock class though...well you can change front bars, but that just gives you more understeer unless you get a smaller front one like the SVT.
Posts: 1539 | From: ozark, al, usa | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
darkside
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posted July 09, 2002 10:59 PM      Profile for darkside     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So changing the rear bar without changing anything else will not help in the handeling dept.
Posts: 55 | From: los angeles, CA | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
SVTCole
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posted July 10, 2002 01:14 AM      Profile for SVTCole     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think I was saying what Terry Haines has pointed out. If you take the parts bin approach, and throw dichotomous parts together you end up with handling worse than when you started out.

A bigger rear sway bar will reduce understeer and provide more oversteer. But Jackie Stewart and some other famous guy helped design the handling in our cars and made it pretty darn neutral to begin with. Too much oversteer makes you unstable at speed and more likely to swap ends in steady state curves and even more so in slalom-like transitional maneuvers.

I would have told him to get Terry's/L8apex's aussie bar but he said he did not WANT more oversteer. Ideally you would want about the same handling characteristics we already have but at a higher limit of adhesion. That's why many autocrossers just buy sticky autocross tires. The tires leave the same overall balance but increase the lateral g, acceleration and braking capability. And if you get Koni or other adjustable shocks, you can fine tune with them as Eric Ford pointed out in his thread about the Peru National Tour event. Stiffer shock settings in front decrease oversteer, stiffer settings in the rear decrease understeer.

Posts: 1539 | From: ozark, al, usa | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
RogerB
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posted July 10, 2002 10:47 PM      Profile for RogerB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just as a counterpoint though:

This car, like any other, is tuned from the factory to be biased toward understeer, which is considered the less frightening option for most drivers--that is, the lowest common denominator.

SVT took the approach, rather than plus-sizing the rear, of downsizing the front bar to tune out a teency bit of that understeer.

I would say that on an SE, a bigger rear bar is a fairly conservative approach, as it should reduce lean in the corners, and tune out some understeer, without affecting overall ride quality in "level cruise." Aren't there lots of SVT's running the Aussi bar? If anyone's going to have oversteer problems, it should be them. On an SE, it would be less of a problem, due to the larger front bar. Or if there's still a concern, how about the BAT bar?

Obviously, you can go too stiff on a rear bar, but I think (though I don't know from experience) the the bars available to us offer a small enough shift in under/over balance not to be dangerous.

Of course, I agree that tires ought to be number one.

--------------------
"Function before fashion."

'96 Contour SE

Posts: 878 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
javaContour
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posted July 11, 2002 07:32 AM      Profile for javaContour   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well,

I'm going to try the Aussie bar this weekend at an AutoX event.

I believe it dials in a mild amount of oversteer. However, I will probably begin to run with about 1/2 tank of fuel instead of a full tank. (I was trying to get the car to rotate.)

As long as I can continue to control the car well, dropping about 50# of fuel, and perhaps a lighter battery being located in the rear (See my Dyna-Batt post in General Mods), I might shave off another a tenth or so. And I still believe seat time and so more drivers training will do wonders for me.

(Of course, I can put the driver on a weight reduction program as well, but gosh that's harder, LOL.)

Anyway, I'm going to try it out. I still have the stock bar I can return in about 60 to 90 minutes of work, including the prep and clean up, so you can experiment with this relatively cheaply.

I'm sure some mod crazed member would buy my Aussie bar, 'specially since you have to have 30 or so folks in a group to order them.

What I've experienced on the exit ramps is that the back "feels" like it wants to come around. Yet it doesn't (YET!)

I guess Sunday will tell regarding slaloms and such. I'll give it a few events and then decide.

FWIW,

TB

--------------------
Tony Boner
Personal: 98cdw27@charter.net Work: tony.boner@sun.com
Saving the computer world from WinBloze as Unix/Solaris/Java Guru http://www.sun.com
1998 Contour SVT Pre-E1 618/6535 Born On Date: 4/30/1997
Now with Aussie Bar induced mild oversteer.

Posts: 3636 | From: Belleville, IL USA | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
5speedSE170HP
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posted July 16, 2002 02:55 AM      Profile for 5speedSE170HP     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
hey thanks for the input guys. i appreciate it.
Posts: 18 | From: warren MI | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
bcandiloro
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posted July 16, 2002 08:51 AM      Profile for bcandiloro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From my experience on the track, the SVT is not neutral, it has way too much understeer. Though it could be just the relatively crappy tires I had on at the time..

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T-Red SVT E0 #2321 of 6535

Posts: 128 | From: Hudson, MA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged


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