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Author
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Topic: Went to court....
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sastexan
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posted July 12, 2002 01:28 PM
So I went to court and fought the ticket I got on the GW Pkwy - 83/50 + reckless driving b/c over 80 in virginia. Let's just say that I learned a lot about law and that I suck as a litigator. I had great preparation, though. It never hurts to act like you're going to fight the ticket - you can always enter a guilty plea and plea bargain with the DA. ALWAYS request discovery from the DA - I got the calibration of the laser gun, and it was expired! My idiotic mistake was that I tried to use that to plea bargain and instead all I did was tip off the DA what I was going to to in court so he was able to get another park police cop to testify about the laser gun. If I hadn't done that, I could have thrown out the ticket! Anyway, the case went on for almost 45 mintues and the judge was pissed off at me so he fined me $500 instead of $300 like I probably would have gotten if I'd just plead guilty but he still dropped the reckless driving like he would have also. So, my advice is either get a lawyer or make sure you are really prepared and know what you're doing in the courtroom. If I get the transcript of the case I'll post it - it's pretty funny, except that I sound like a bumbling moron. I think I'm more pissed that the DA, who was pretty incompetent for a lawyer, beat me. Oh well.
Another intersting thing I learned - in Virginia, the law requires the officer to show you the laser or radar gun as proof and the gun has to be calibrated every six months. VA state code § 46.2-882. If you do get pulled over, don't make a scene or argue but if you do get a ticket research the state law covering them. Unfortunately for me, US Parks are covered by federal laws and are much less specific than state laws so the court has a lot more leeway in its decisions. And state law is lower than federal law, so the park police don't have to abide by state law even though that's what you are being charged with.
Expensive lesson for me - I just hope that the District is too unorganized to find out I got a ticket and I don't get any points on my license. Still have a ticket in montgomery county to take care of too. The only upside is that my gas mileage has gone up 2-3 MPG since I've been keeping off the go pedeal! But my fun in the SVT is permanently slowed down for a while...
Steven
'98.5 silver CSVT
goin' slow - pass me by
Posts: 5 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mike Hunt
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Member # 657
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posted July 12, 2002 01:46 PM
sorry man, you live you learn.
andy W. and i are still on 0 tickets (knock on wood)
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Posts: 2607 | From: PB, PhD. | Registered: Jul 2000
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The Pakrat
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Member # 4100
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posted July 12, 2002 02:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sastexan:
in Virginia, the law requires the officer to show you the laser or radar gun as proof
Huh, funny. Out of the two tickets I have gotten in VA neither of them have showed me the gun. Is that something you can fight in court?
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98 E0 Silver SVT
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Posts: 1036 | From: Frederick, MD | Registered: Jun 2001
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HighPoweredKaufman
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Member # 7158
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posted July 12, 2002 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sastexan:
my fun in the SVT is permanently slowed down for a while...
That doesn't sound too permanent. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Posts: 397 | From: North East PA, but I'm in Rockville, MD | Registered: Jan 2002
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Andy W.
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Member # 750
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posted July 14, 2002 10:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 95MID:
sorry man, you live you learn.
andy W. and i are still on 0 tickets (knock on wood)
I should beat your ass for that statement!!!!!
*andyknocksonwood*
-Andy
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Andy Watson
'99 Silver SVT #2397| DOB 07/29/99
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Posts: 3223 | From: College Park, MD | Registered: Jul 2000
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PA 3L SVT
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posted July 16, 2002 02:22 AM
Trying to learn here:
I'm confused about the laser gun calibration. You said it was out of cal, but the DA got another officer to testify about it and it was suddenly OK? How'd that go exactly?
I'm also confused about the federal/state law point. On federal land, you can get charged with violation of state law and the police don't have to follow the state law they are charging you with? Sounds contradictory to me.
Posts: 3419 | From: Conshohocken, PA | Registered: Jun 2001
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sastexan
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posted July 17, 2002 04:13 PM
I'll try to clarify the law so everyone knows for future reference - and btw, if anyone has gotten a ticket in montgomery county and fought it or used an attorney, please email me at ssolomo@yahoo.com - as I said, I really have to keep off the gas... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
The parkways (GW Parkway, Rock Creek Parkway, BW Parkway, etc.) are considered federal property and not part of the state, so they are governed by federal law. Which is why you go to a federal court for those tickets and Park Police are in charge.
The way the law works is federal law is stronger than state law, so whatever the federal law says goes. In this case, I was charged with violating 36CFR4.2 (code of federal regulations title 36 part 4 section 2), which says unless specifically addressed by regulations in the CFR, state law governs the traffic and use of vehicles within a park area. So, I was then charged with violating virginia law section 46.2-862, which says you're guilty of reckless driving if you are going over 80 (among other things). But virginia code 46.2-869 says that upon trial of someone charged with reckless driving, fi the degree of culpability is slight, the court may in its discretion to find the accused not guilty of reckless driving but guilty of improper driving.
As far as the radar gun goes, virginia code 46.2-882 paragraph 7 says law enforcement officers shall, on request of any affected motorist, permist such motorist to observe the reading on the device except if it's in an airplane or helicopter. The second paragraph says that the calibration is only good for six months.
Now, my problem was that the federal law says the traffic and use of vehicles is governed by state law, not what the police have to follow. So the virginia code didn't help me there. My fatal error was trying to plea with the DA before court - the calibration he sent me for the laser gun (he has to prove that the device indeed works properly) said that the device testing the laser gun's calibration was expired when it tested the gun. I told the DA I was going to get that thrown out of evidence, and I did. But I gave him time to go get the previous calibration, which was over 1 year old, and use that in the court. The judge took it. So I lost.
Hope that helps you guys. No, I'm not a lawyer but I had some free time and I was really determined to win. If I didn't suck as a litigator I would have won - I got thrown off track in the courtroom and didn't follow my notes and research and the judge wasn't too happy with a traffic ticket taking over 1/2 hour so I got slammed. C'est la vie.
Steven
Posts: 5 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2002
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dcl
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Member # 283
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posted July 18, 2002 04:24 PM
Thank you for the information. I'm sorry that things didn't work out for you. It sounds like you've learned a lesson though.
Ever since I moved to Virginia, I've heard nothing but stories just like yours. They've certainly worked to put me in the habit of keeping a watchful eye on the speedo. Thankfully, I've managed to stay out of trouble (knocking on faux woodgrain), but it's good to know the system in case I ever end-up on the other side of the law.
Posts: 130 | From: Alexandria, VA | Registered: May 2000
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