Hydrolocked?!?!

Okay folks, this motor may be rubbish. It all went down like this....

If you watched the news at all yesterday you would have seen the lovely weather chicagoland experience yesterday. I know very well to not drive through large puddles and things of that nature so please save the brow bashing.

On my way home from work it was severly raining, 5% visibility and I was moving at about 10 MPH. I am not 100% familiar with the area yet so I did not know what areas would accumulate water durring heavy rain. I never saw it coming and drove into water approx 14-18in deep. Going so slow and low RPM the car stalled before I could even kill it myself.

Suspecting the worst I did NOT try to restart the car. I got out, in the pouring rain, and pushed it back to my place. (That sucked)

In the rain, I removed some hose couplers to confirm water had entered the UIM. Do to the weather and power outages I have not had the chance to pull the plugs and try to turn it over. I am sitting here pondering the fate of this engine and want to know what you guys think the likely outcome is given the above chain of events.

Additionally, would the cold water making contact with the hot pistons spell certain death as well?

I am hopeing that the first introduction of water just killed the spark and caused the stall and that I just need to dry it out.

*fingers crossed*

I think the only thing you can do at this point is change out the plugs, remove the UIM, and let it air out. I'd change the oil too before cranking it over again. Hope it all works out to be just a good scare!

I was going to pull the plugs and turn it over to blast the water out the plug holes.

Hmmm....I knew I would be changing out the oil but I didnt plan to do it before I turned it over.

Probably should being that the oil is probably sitting on top of the water in the pan.

If you didn't try to start it with water in there, you may have a chance... even so.. hot pistons and cold water may NOT be that much trouble.

I hydrolocked my engine in the same scenario.. number one piston rod bent SEVERELY (enough to knock the crank on each revolution) and the piston itself was perfectly fine.

Pull the plugs, and squirt a bunch of water dispersant down each hole (WD-40 is a good water dispersant). Then try to crank it over w/ the plugs still out (ALL of the plugs) if there is any knocking or metal on metal noises stop immediately, and it might save you some money on the rebuild. If it sounds ok, spray a little more WD-40 in each cylinder, put the plugs back in and attempt to start it. Once again, if you get any strange sounds, stop immediately.

Hopefully there was no damage, sometimes you can get lucky.

adam you have such bad luck, hope you get things worked out without having to spend any money

I like that idea Rara. Do you think I have much to be concerned about water that has found its way around the rings and into the oil pan? If at all.

SHOgoFast said:

I like that idea Rara. Do you think I have much to be concerned about water that has found its way around the rings and into the oil pan? If at all.

Click to expand...

I'd drain it and change the oil personally just to be on the safe side. Never know, if some water did get in there it could cause all the damage. If you don't want to put some fancy synthetic in there just get a decent oil and change it again if everything works out

SHOgoFast said:

I like that idea Rara. Do you think I have much to be concerned about water that has found its way around the rings and into the oil pan? If at all.

Click to expand...

Well, any water that made it into the engine is going to be bad. I would change the oil just in case. Why risk an engine for a $30 job?

as a side note.. CALL YOUR INSURANCE... tell them that you were driving on the public road and drove through a puddle.. causing engine problems.. IF they cause is found to be hydrolocking (bent rod, broken piston, etc) then they will cover all damages and repairs... (or should, if they are a good insurance company.. USAA did for me)

However, if there are no hydrolock problems found, you are liable for shop time to tear it down and put it together (enough to find the "problem" thus far)

Now, if I go the insurance route should I keep my hands off and let EVERYTHING be done by a shop? Also, do you think my claim could be denied due to the modified location of the airfilter/intake?

It would actually be perfection if they found it to be hydrolocked and total the vehicle out. I could collect the check, keep my totalled car, and do the repair myself for far less than the claim would pay. That is, if they allow me to keep it once totalled. I can live with a salvage title.

I can only tell you MY situation.

My filter is just off the ground..
I ran in water, called USAA told them I hit water..
They asked if it was a PUBLIC road, and I answered "Yes".

They paid towing to a shop of my choice
they paid tear-down, and investigation.
the adjuster came out and looked at it, denied the claim of hydrolocking because he saw no damage to the cylinder (borescope) or bearings from underneath.
He REQUIRED me to go further to see rod/piston OUT of the cylinder. At each step he made sure to point out that I was asking to go further and that if there was no evidence, then I was responsible for all labor to that point.

I had to say "I want you to go further"..

well, Turns out the rod was bent (35º or so!!) and they saw that as being from an incompressible liquid (water).. They covered all repairs, regardless of OEM state, or not. Even covered the EGT and Wideband sensors that got taken out due to the water hitting them as well! Of course, this was USAA, and I don't know who you are with..
I would take that and go with what you want..

If you are going to call insurance, I would MAKE SURE its all buttoned up BEFORE you do. Maybe remove the plugs, WD40, crank it, and see? if it sounds bad, replace and then call? I would NOT admit to looking at it, though. The only bad part is if there ISN'T any damage, you are stuck paying the towing, the labor and the labor to put it back together!

its worth the cost, IF your car is making a terrible noise, though. crank it and see, is all I can tell you...

Let me know if you have any other questions..

Do what Rara said to clear the engine and check it. Not much water will make it past the rings unless you broke something. If any did then after you clear the engine and start the car the heat will boil it right out as steam in the pcv.
I wouldn't waste the $30 until I knew the engine would at least crank through freely. Then I'd just pull the oil plug slowly and let a little drain out to see if there is any substantial water. If it is none or very little then screw it, I'd run it first to make sure. Then change it later.
Never know, you may just get a nice steam cleaning for your pistons! Hopefully.

get one of these....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VACU...007QQitemZ170142464152QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
remove the plugs , attach a long hose to the pump, stick the hose in the cylinder , suck out any water , get a little oil squirt can and squirt a little oil in the cylinder

Update

Update

Alright, here is how I went at it.

Due to other rain related issues (ankel deep water in basement and continued storms + work) the car sat untouched until Sunday aftenoon.

Pulled plugs as advised. Got standing water out of turbo and various other places along the intake track.

Sprayed a little WD40 in each plug hole. Cranked it over. There was no water expelled from the cylinders. Also, did not here any "scary" sounds. Now some might be extactic to find this, me being the eternal pessimist said, "So where did the water go then!?!?" I KNOW it got in there. Using as good of a visual examination as possible with a flashlight down the plug holes no water was to be found.

Buttoned everything up and fire the engine. Runs. Rough. Seems to be dragging a piston. Quite a bit of missing too. Let it run to heat up and remove all moisture from system. Checked the dipstick and sure enough the oil was milky indicating water is in fact in there. I have not driven the car yet as I want to change the oil before hitting the streets. Once I drive it I am expecting it to throw a code or two.

Now, this is where my questions come in...

Where did the water go? Warmonger said it would be unlikely that water would have escaped around the rings unless something was damaged. Is that still the case if let sit for 2-3 days or would that water still find its way around the rings after that much time without engine damage?

Rough idle - would water contact have adverse effects on the MAF sensor wires or IAT sensor, O2 sensor, or any others that I am forgetting that are in the intake exhause path.

Possible mild bending of a connecting rod? Would this effectively shorten the stroke and alter compression and timing enough to cause this rough idle?

Anway, this is where I am at with my baby.

My plans are to change the oil tonight, test drive around town to see what CELs I get and to get a better feel for the current condition of the car. If it feels terrible or stalls or throws many CELs indicating bad sensors I will then pull the pan and tray to try to get a visual examination of the connecting rods. I will be saving my watery oil. If I see anything I dont like with them I will put the watery oil back in and call my insurance company.

Basically, I want to avoid paying a shop to do exploratory work only to not find anything and stick me with a bill large enough to cover another full 3L from LKQ.

I want "proof" of damage myself before I get insurance involved.

After 2 or 3 days, I would expect that at least some of the water could leak past the rings, though not a large amount. I would also expect some to evaporate as well. One additional item to consider is that sitting water in the cylinder opens up the possibility of rust on the cylinder liners.

Did you thouroughly inspect the plugs? There is a chance that water in one cylinder may have damaged the plug (hot ceramic plug + cold water + high pressure = cracked plug) Consider changing out the plugs, or do the poor man's ignition test (remove plug wires one at a time to see if the roughness changes or doesn't change)

Plugs looked good. They were only 1 day old too. If there was any rust on the liners its gone now as I ran the motor at idle for 10 mins yesterday. I suppose I could compression test it. All six were between 213-215 psi a few days before the new plugs went in.

Although not entirely relevant, but more "after you explore", check the wideband, EGTs, Intake/Intercooler temps, boost gauges.

Water killed my 2 stage temp gauge, wideband and EGT.

Yikes, thats close to the last thing I want to deal withl, buying new EGT and Wideband would be painful.

FWIW, my insurance payed for new performance gauges, too!