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Redoing MTX, what looks bad? (pics inside)

NorMich99SE

CEG'er
Joined
Jan 3, 2002
Messages
468
Location
Morton, IL
I'm in the middle of a 3L swap and am tearing into the trans as well, since the car is my dd, I'm using the trans from my defunct 99 SE V6, and tonight, I took the plunge and tore it open. I plan on replacing the diff with either a torsen or quaife (haven't decided which yet) and plan on updating the shift forks to the newer style with the roller bearings or whatever. I'm including some pics I took tonight of the gearsets (specifically the synchros/blockers) looking for input on whether they look bad enough to replace, if you can tell from the pics. The car it's going in will be a 00 SVT, and the engine is an 04 ported 3L with extra port/polish work done and headers, running a new stock clutch/flywheel combo. I got the clutch kit so I have a new slave cylinder as well. Open to input/suggestions, but money is becoming an issue on this. On with the pics:
First up, my diff and the magnet in the case
100_1727.jpg

100_1725.jpg

100_1729.jpg


Now on to the synchros/blockers
100_1733.jpg

100_1734.jpg

100_1736.jpg


Also, I remember seeing at one time a real nice how-to on rebuilding one of the tranny's, and I thought it was in the how-to's on the main page but can't seem to find it, if I remember it had the part numbers for the revised shift forks, can anyone help me out on that as well?
 
Great looking diff as usual. LOL

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=tranny

I'd at least do the 2nd and 3rd gear sync's if it was shifting fine previously. Also the revised forks and an LSD of course.

I honestly don't quite remember how it was shifting before. The car this trans was in died almost exactly 2 years ago. I think I was having some problems getting it into 2nd though. I was running the tranny cocktail in it with redline atf and ford friction modifier.

Thanks for the link too Todd, somehow I forgot all about the archives, doh!
 
seriously replace all the synchros, its a one time fee and its worth it, theres no way to measure them or find out if their bad. i had my synchros left alone cuz the tech said they were fine and after 2 weeks they started grinding. just do it. at least the 1-2 and 3-4. my .02 cents
 
I don't see what everyones talking about. Everything looks fine to me. On to a more serious note. About how much would it cost if I was to drop off the two shafts at a transmission shop for them to replace the 1-2, 3-4 syncros? My spare gearbox syncro's look about the same as his.
 
My local shop charged around $170 to install a torsen, bearings, new shift forks, 1-2 synchro and seals.

That's cheaper then what I was expecting to hear. I would re-install everything myself. I would have to get torque specs of course. I would just need the syncros installed so it should be cheaper. Thanks.
 
I dont know what Terry charges these days but he'll replace as much as you want for a flat installation fee. Something like $300 when I did it.

BTW, I'm sure you can measure a syncro's wear. It has tolerances and such when its built. I don't see why the height of the teeth on the syncro couldn't be measured to indicate the wear. Terry inspected mine when I had my trans upgraded and he said all of them were in great shape.

BTW, take another look at the diff teeth...the teeth are chewed up pretty good, hense all the metal shavings at the magnet.
 
seriously replace all the synchros, its a one time fee and its worth it, theres no way to measure them or find out if their bad. i had my synchros left alone cuz the tech said they were fine and after 2 weeks they started grinding. just do it. at least the 1-2 and 3-4. my .02 cents

You sir do not belong giving advice on this topic, because you do not know what your talking about. No need to go and replace syncros just because. Especialy since the double syncro ring third gear is obselote.
 
Some of your sycnro rings are showing some wear. Nothing needing serious attention, but wouldn't hurt to replace. If the car shifted fine when you took it out, chances are everything is ok. Maybe install some new roller bearings and axles seals and call it good. Also good idea to check for end play in any of the gears as well. This can cause issues.
 
I dont know what Terry charges these days but he'll replace as much as you want for a flat installation fee. Something like $300 when I did it.

BTW, I'm sure you can measure a syncro's wear. It has tolerances and such when its built. I don't see why the height of the teeth on the syncro couldn't be measured to indicate the wear. Terry inspected mine when I had my trans upgraded and he said all of them were in great shape.

Thats also a minimum fee as well and its more like $400 these days. You can check for syncro engagement and inspect for wear with the gear sets out of the car.
 
You sir do not belong giving advice on this topic, because you do not know what your talking about. No need to go and replace syncros just because. Especialy since the double syncro ring third gear is obselote.

well im certainly no professional on a manual trans but i am comfortable taking one apart and rebuilding it with a manual. engines are more my thing. but this tech told me my synchros looked perfect and then they went to hell withen a few weeks. so i simply recommend replacement. in my opinion its just easier than dealin with two trans pulls. but again im no prefessional on the mtx-75.
 
Rebuilding a manual trans is not totaly the same concept as rebuilding a engine per say. There are alot of hard metal parts that dont just wear like say bearings in a engine. The biggest wear part would be the brass syncro rings, or "blocker" rings as some refer to them. If they are inspected properly than you should have no issues. The scenario could have been the same for your trans had you replaced the syncros Might have just been a bad shift or what ever the reason. Having some worn in parts can be a benefit on a manual trans. Everything will fit and slide together much better providing a smoother shifting trans. Once you replace those parts shifting may become more stiff until things are worn in. Or you could say more of a notch feel. Were you can feel the gear engaging. This is what I prefer, some like a more effortless approach.
 
fwiw, Liberty's Gears in Dearborn charged me $200 labor + parts for my rebuild, and I've been very happy with it.
 
You can check synchro wear yourself. The TOPS of the teeth are unimportant, it's the sides that count. As sleeve moves over and first contacts synchro, the "hit' will impact as marking on the sides of the brass teeth. You can still run them some with them beat up, if burrs start to show up on sides a small file can be used to dress up the tooth to clean edged again. The brass part by far takes most of the damage, rare for the gear itself or the sliding sleeve to go bad. One thing to check for is the "brake". ALL manual transmissions shift from one gear to the other based on the fact that the only way the sleeve and synchro/gear assembly can connect and lock together is for the entire assembly at some point in time to be going at the EXACT SAME SPEED. That is the value of the clutch, which disconnects driveline for a second so transmission can easily equal gear speeds for the gear change. The transmission does this with the synchro(nizing) ring, which describes what it does very aptly. As the sleeve moves over and contacts the brass, they jiggle together as the two tooth patterns seek to slide in place. As they are hooking up, the pair of parts both move closer to the gear itself along with its' third set of teeth. The inner diameter of the brass has an angle built into it that matches an angle machined on the gear. These angles contact before the brass physically contacts the gear on their flat backsides. This contact brakes the brass/sleeve assembly to an equal speed of the gear so that assembly can smoothly slide in place. You check the "brake" by pushing the brass against the gear and observing how close the gap is between them, once brass synchro ring starts getting really close to the gear (or even contacts flat side of it), time to change the brass. If trans completely apart, you can check this brake action by taking brass ring and putting it on bare gear, spin brass slowly while pushing it against gear, you should feel the drag increase until brass locks up. That braking action allows the sleeve to engage the gear by equalization of speeds. I wonder if that Liberty's Gears is the same one we used to buy our racing 4 speed trannys from? Borg Warner super T10s built to withstand 600 hp.
 
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