Comparison of turbo to supercharger

[warmonger]

There is Great news for the duratec owners. You now have two affordable options for your cars, the supercharger made by Blackcoug and the turbo kits made by Nautilus.

Both have their own distinct advantages so I thought we'd compare the two kits in this thread and answer any question people have. The comments and the questions arise in the other threads and it looks like people are stepping on each others toes....and we don't want that.

We can also add Nitrous to this thread as well if there is a "real" nitrous guru who wants to talk about it.
I've driven all three types of cars so I have first hand perspective of each.
However, I'll only talk about the turbo systems and I'll let Blackcoug talk about the supercharger advantages/limitations since he is the new resident expert.

Turbo
- flexibility. Available in different configurations for both 2.5L and 3L engines with nearly any desired power power level you want to achieve depending on your engine build. The kit is upgradeable when you want by changing key components to meet different boost levels or different engines.

- cost/performance ratio. The complete turbo kit can be purchased with a tune for under $3000 and it can produce between 250-300wHP depending on exhaust configuration and boost level. The basic stage one kit will work fine on a basic 3L as well.

-torque. The torque curve can be tailored by your choice of turbo trim but essentially with the basic 2.5L you'll be making 230-250ft-lbs at moderate boost levels. The torque curve can be progressive or very linear depending on trim. Sudden onset or delayed onset, etc.

-boost control. The basic turbo can have the boost raised with just a needle valve or ball and spring controller. There are affordable two-stage boost controllers that can use a switch on the wheel to trigger higher boost for higher gears or better traction. THere are completely electronic and programmable boost controllers that can control boost level in EVERY gear!

- Fuel economy. With the appropriate tune the off-boost economy is quite good and will probably be within 2mpg of the rated factory mpg. The 3L will regularly see 25-26mpg on the highway and the 2.5L will be a bit better. Essentially no parasitic loss.

- Reliability. There are turbo kits running since 2002 without issues if used within the limitations of the engine. No additional maintenance other than quality and more frequent oil changes recommended.

[TourDeForce]

<===== (* Hears crickets... *)

You've made some valid & true points. I don't think anybody would argue in the least, nor could they. I do think that an open competition of posts between the two kits is potentially more destructive for both developers, rather than constructive for the community. If this gets going, I forsee some collateral damage long term. Benefits & shortcomings of both methods of FI have been well documented, and I also think that people who buy one over the other won't be swayed much by this kind of thread.

[Blackcoog]

Here are a few of the largest benefits from the Supercharger setup:

1. Install. You've got 1/2 the piping work and it's all cold side tubes. No exhaust manifold replacement work, no hot pipes running hither & thither over/under the tranny, and you can run stock or MSDS headers. Piping is all aluminum intake piping meaning no rust ever. Removal is simple and can take less than an hour for those that need to remove for inspection.

2. Under hood temperatures will be lower. The SC headunit will generate some heat, but nothing like a turbo & all the piping it uses.

3. Less tq down low = good thing. For those with ATX's monster torque at low rpm levels before the line pressures fully build may cause significant wear on the clutch packs, no matter how cool you keep the fluid. For everyone this will be a good thing at the track or on the street to keep the tires from lighting up every time you get on the pedel. While it may look cool this is a FWD car so shifting tq and hp up is a good thing.

4. Cheaper upgrades. The vortech headunit in this kit is capable of flowing 800cfm and is used in more than a few applications putting out close to 600hp. To upgrade to higher boost you will never need to change the supercharger headunit. Higher boost will come from smaller pulleys and slightly different belt routing with an idler pulley to add more belt wrap on the supercharger pulley.

5. This kit will work on ATX. While we don't have an ATX car yet there is no reason this will not work on an automatic car. We do not run piping near the transmission.

6. Warranty. The vortech headunit is warrantied by vortech for one year. We will also offer a one year parts warranty to cover any part issues.

more to come....

[Ray]

To be fair:

1. Install... ...no hot pipes running hither & thither over/under the tranny, and you can run stock or MSDS headers. Piping is all aluminum intake piping meaning no rust ever.

You can run stock, MSDS, WR, or ANY exhaust that bolts to the stock CAT location (ie, any aftermarket exhaust.. they all bolt up that way) on the Nautilus kit, TOO.

2. Under hood temperatures will be lower. The SC headunit will generate some heat, but nothing like a turbo & all the piping it uses.

I won't argue that one. You are right. Intercoolers can negate that to some degree, but that is here nor there.

3. Less tq down low = good thing.

Since when? I will say that if your particular niche is a slalom every day then sure.. you would want something that wasn't able to break loose down low. There ARE benefits to a supercharger, but let's be honest.. having less torque is NOT A GOOD THING, it is a acceptable loss, due to the secondary benefits you gain due to having less tq.

4. Cheaper upgrades. The vortech headunit in this kit is capable of flowing 800cfm and is used in more than a few applications putting out close to 600hp. To upgrade to higher boost you will never need to change the supercharger headunit. Higher boost will come from smaller pulleys and slightly different belt routing with an idler pulley to add more belt wrap on the supercharger pulley.

A new pulley kit is.. what? ~$230-250 the difference in a 60-1 from the 57 trim which is offered in the stage 1 kit is what? $150. Not to mention that the kit COMES INTERCOOLED ALREADY, which you would have to then purchase if you want to run higher boost levels on a supercharged vehicle.

5. Warranty. The vortech headunit is warrantied by vortech for one year. We will also offer a one year parts warranty to cover any part issues.

The same warranty will apply to the turbo unit. Manufacturers defects, etc. If you run low on oil and burn it up then that's your fault.. same as a vortech. Nautilus offers a one year warranty on the pipes, flanges, welds, and any included pieces.. Craftmanship, really.

Now, while you DID mention a couple of things that a Vortech unit provides that Nautilus doesn't (ease of install/removal) and underhood temps.. the rest is actually applicable to both units..

[beyondloadedSE]

Good discussion guys I might have to add this to the FAQ at the top.

[TourDeForce]

To be fair Ray,

I think the less torque comment was being described as a benefit to the ATX guys. For flat out performance sure, more = better, but to preserve the CD4E I think building the line pressure before onset of full boost is a better idea. True or not, I'd like to have more power, but I don't see the wisdom or feel the need to push this critical system in my car to it's limit until that limit has been explored a bit more thoroughly.

Now there has been talk of potentially offering a turbo system for the ATX cars, but I have not seen word one of development at this point. Gotta check the thread again.... The SC unit will be ready to bolt into any Contique or Cougar with a V-6.

[Ray]

I completely agree. I don't think that it would be wise to slam your CD4e with anything that hasn't been at least ventured in to before. I wasn't trying to be cynical, or anything. I just read the statement, and I saw

"for those with ATX's", then information followed..
Then the statement "for everyone..." and read it to mean that less torque is good for "everyone". You are right, though. To be fair, there are benefits for each. The biggest benefits that blackcoog has (at this point) are:

• ease of install/removal
• underhood temps
• applicable to any variant of the CDW-27 platform.

The biggest benefits of the nautilus kit (to me) are:

• bang for the buck (power:cost ratio)
• modular (upgradable... the SC kit is, too, but all the legwork is done on the nautilus kit.. already intercooled for one.. everything is there.. just a bigger turbo is what you need to buy.. possibly injectors, which again are the same as the SC kit)
• as stated above: intercooled
• power under the curve/ability to shift the power curve up or down; not a "set in stone" pro, however.... some people build dyno queens, some people build 1/4 mile cars.. some for top speed. Where is YOUR preference?

[Tourige]

Since no one else is stepping up Ill throw some info on the Nitrous Part:

Nitrous Pros:

- Realitivly cheap price in comparison to Turbo or Supercharger setups
- Easily found on Ebay, lots of aftermarket support for Nitrous
- Easy to install
- Instant Power, No lag
- Under a 75 shot dosent require a tune
- Easy Power (Good gains on the Duratech)
- Dosent require a built transmission or an upgraded clutch.
- Easy to revert back to stock
- Dosent change the efficiency of the Engine
- "Cool" Factor

Cons:

- You have to fill the bottle constantly
- Really only usefull in a straight line
- Can be hard to launch a car with Nitrous
- Cannot be used on a day to day basis
- Can be very dangerous if installed improperly

[Ray]

I would debate whether or not you need a built clutch/transmission. For that matter, you don't "need" a built drivetrain for a turbo or a SC. Personally.. I think you "need" a build up for any of the three forms of forced induction.

[Tourige]

Yea but you dont HAVE to run spray in 1st or second with a nitrous. You do run spray all the time. Fair enough that you could stay out of boost, but to replace the diff and stuff is going to take a lot of work digging into the car, Taking away from the ease of a Nitrous install.