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Has anyone experimented with 80A or softer poly on their roll restrictor?

AGrayson84

CEG'er
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
329
Location
Annapolis, MD
Hey folks. I know there has been some discussion about this, but I have yet to see anyone post results of trying different hardness levels of polyurethane to cast some roll restrictors.

I put a brand new roll restrictor and front engine/trans mount in my CSVT a few months ago and at least the rear roll restrictor is already shot. It felt nice for a couple of weeks, but even upon initial installation of both parts, the new roll restrictor was sagging once I lowered the engine back down with my hydraulic jack. Pretty disappointing.

I don't want to go with 94A hardness. I feel like one of the lesser hardness levels (80A or even 60A) may do the job with a lot less vibration. A lot of people will say that anything less than 90A will be too soft... but I think some of those people are forgetting we're going from not just rubber to poly, but rubber with holes cast through it to poly. If our factory roll restrictors were solid rubber (no holes), we probably would be just fine.

From what I hear on people using 94A, the vibration is quite obvious. I'm 30 years-old, I don't want that kind of vibration anymore. I do plan on putting aluminum subframe bushings on the car (only because poly is not an option for us there) so unfortunately I'll already be having to deal with some vibration there. I certainly don't want to add to that.

Has anyone experimented with 80A or softer on their roll restrictor and/or front mount?

Thanks,
Andrew
 
Thanks for the response. It could be that the filling broke up, but could also partially be that you got used to it. I put aluminum SFB's on my '92 SHO I had years ago, and the vibration was very noticeable at first, but I got used to it after time. Obviously the aluminum didn't soften up, so in my case it was just that I got used to it. But if I drove my other car for a couple weeks I'd notice how bad the vibration was when I got back in the SHO.

Apparently many skateboard wheels are made of 90A, so I'm definitely a little concerned that the 90A isn't going to soften up much more over time for my personal preference. Thanks for the input though... maybe something just one step softer than 90A might be OK, but I'm tempted to buy some 80A and some 60A and mix them together to see how it turns out.
 
My recollection is that some owners have tried ~ 60A poly restrictors and the poly failed within about 6 months (just doesn't have the mechanical strength). 80A and 94A have a good track record for durability. More people do find 94A to be a bit too harsh on NVH than 80A.
 
I have a Prothane insert in the front, and Windo-Weld in the rear mount. Vibration is not an issue.

How is the Window Weld stuff holding up? I've read about people here doing that but not having the best results for longevity. The Prothane insert sounds like a decent idea, but I thought I had read about someone on here installing one some time ago and getting crazy vibration. I'll have to go back and look.


My recollection is that some owners have tried ~ 60A poly restrictors and the poly failed within about 6 months (just doesn't have the mechanical strength). 80A and 94A have a good track record for durability. More people do find 94A to be a bit too harsh on NVH than 80A.

I just found this video of a Cougar that has a drilled, 60A-filled roll restrictor:


Visually, it looks perfect to me as far as the minimal movement. Not too stiff, not too soft. I asked on in the video how it's holding up, but at one point roughly a year after the video he did say that it's still holding up well. Hopefully I'll hear back soon.


mine definitely didnt break up. i have my motor out now

Yeah that 90A stuff is almost rock-hard... definitely shouldn't have any break-down on it during the rest of your car's lifetime.
 
How is the Window Weld stuff holding up? I've read about people here doing that but not having the best results for longevity. The Prothane insert sounds like a decent idea, but I thought I had read about someone on here installing one some time ago and getting crazy vibration. I'll have to go back and look.

The Windo-Weld is 100% durable. I first filled all the small voids with the stuff, then "iced" both ends like a cake to seal it all in. That was probably 10 years ago, and every time I get underneath the car, it still looks exactly the way it did the time before. It's not going anywhere.

The Prothane inserts are really not much different than the SVT Stab-O-Shoc for stiffening. You're still retaining the factory rubber, and just filling the voids.
 
Thanks for the response! I actually forgot to mention that the roll restrictor I removed from my car had steel pins inserted in the holes. Obviously steel is harder than poly and I still had a lot of slop. Maybe it's the additional weight of the 3L that is harder on these components, though I wouldn't think the 3L was that much more than the 2.5L. But considering a brand new roll restrictor didn't even last more than 2 weeks, I think I need to do more than just fill the holes with something. I already removed all of the rubber from the mount that was replaced, so at least I already have a candidate to fill with poly and let cure for a few days while I drive the car.

I'm leaning toward mixing 60A and 85A to get somewhere in between the two hardness levels. 1 can of each mixed together will give me plenty to fill the entire roll restrictor, as well as the voids on the front mount, so I guess I might as well just fill the voids on the front mount with liquid urethane.
 
80A in my rear RR has been there for over 5 years w/o any deterioration. I wouldn't run anything other than Shore Hardness 80A in the rear RR. Of course I have a Zetec 2.0, which has more vibration (4 cyl) than your Duratec. Also has less weight so that is likely a contributor to longevity.
 
80A in my rear RR has bene there for over 5 years w/o any deterioration. I wouldn't run anything other than Shore Hardness 80A in the rear RR. Of course I have a Zetec 2.0, which has more vibration (4 cyl) than your Duratec. Also has less weight so that is likely a contributor to longevity.

How do you like the 80A hardness? Notice any slop anymore? A bit more vibration? I'm honestly really leaning more toward mixing 85A and 60A to get roughly a 72.5A shore hardness. 80A would otherwise be the most ideal, but I'm hoping to find a balance between minimal vibration and good long-term durability.


I would think the 3.0 is lighter than the 2.5. Same block with bigger holes in it?

I guess that's possible. The larger bores require larger pistons, but I'm sure it could still have a lesser weight on the rotating assembly with the larger bores. I'm running a full 3L, so I also have a lighter intake manifold. Maybe my 3L isn't heavier than a 2.5L, and if not, I wonder why a brand new roll restrictor only lasted 2 weeks before getting sloppy again.
 
I guess that's possible. The larger bores require larger pistons, but I'm sure it could still have a lesser weight on the rotating assembly with the larger bores. I'm running a full 3L, so I also have a lighter intake manifold. Maybe my 3L isn't heavier than a 2.5L, and if not, I wonder why a brand new roll restrictor only lasted 2 weeks before getting sloppy again.

More torque from the 3.0L, therefore more reactive forces put into the roll resistor, ergo, shorter life.

Something else...

I've bought 4 rear RR inserts from Rockauto over the last few years, and I've noticed that they're getting softer, and coming from all manner of overseas vendors in India and Eastern Europe. I suspect the process control for durometer is all over the place, and nowhere near where it needs to be for the extra abuse the SVT RR's will get.

I have two RR inserts on the workbench right now, one from DEA, made in India, and one from Anchor, made in Eastern Europe somewhere, and they are quite noticeably different in stiffness, the DEA part is like a Nerf ball, and probably wouldn't last very long.
 
More torque from the 3.0L, therefore more reactive forces put into the roll resistor, ergo, shorter life.

Something else...

I've bought 4 rear RR inserts from Rockauto over the last few years, and I've noticed that they're getting softer, and coming from all manner of overseas vendors in India and Eastern Europe. I suspect the process control for durometer is all over the place, and nowhere near where it needs to be for the extra abuse the SVT RR's will get.

I have two RR inserts on the workbench right now, one from DEA, made in India, and one from Anchor, made in Eastern Europe somewhere, and they are quite noticeably different in stiffness, the DEA part is like a Nerf ball, and probably wouldn't last very long.

I beleive you are correct on your observations regarding QC and Shore Hardness; I also have noticed the same. There are a number of reasons besides QC that can affect hardness of these RR's and mounts, such as the way they are measured - numerous scales are used - http://www.matweb.com/reference/shore-hardness.aspx
 
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