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Rough idle, sputtering and weak accel.

1

1999sefl

CEG'er
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
60
Location
Southeast US
I could really use your help right now everybody! I have had my 1999 se 6cyl atx with about 73k miles since day 1! It has been a great vehicle and I can hardly complain. Its showing its age though, the paint is blistering on the front bumper and the side mirror's paint on top is long ago a memory. The bushings and shocks are starting to go too. Today, I was on my way home and bam! starting running really rough. At stop lights, it was sputtering and misfiring. The check engine light was flashing at me. There was a noticeable loss of power as if I was running on one less cylinder. I didnt have a chance to look at anything else, but I wanted to know if anyone off hand knows where to start digging in to this problem - i dont have a scanner and money is tight. I know the plugs and coilpack are original, but it was so wierd for this to just come on suddenly. Any help will be greatly appreciated as this is my daily driver. Can I pull the codes without a reader? I remember once long ago getting the cel to flash the codes, but i think that was obdii or iv cant recall which one.

thanks a bunch!
-John
 
You need an OBDII reader to pull codes. Go to Autozone or Advance Auto. They will read the codes free. Then post the exact codes here.

Flashing CEL usually means the engine is misfiring. Why? The codes will be a start on the how to diagnose the issue.

In the meantime, open the hood. Check if a spark plug wire came loose or something.
 
Thanks Tony. Is it safe to run the vehicle when its misfiring - I didnt hear or feel any hard knocking, just misfiring. I had to drive on it this way for 12 miles, I dont want to do any further damage. Can a fuel injector that is clogged or not spraying cause this?
 
You should do minimal driving until the problem is fixed. Misfiring is hard on the engine and can easily burn out your catalytic converters.

Yes, a bad fuel injector could cause this but get the codes read first, then post here.
 
ok, I bummed a ride off of my dad to get to and from work. Just got back from auto store -codes are as follows
P0302 - cylinder#2
P0171 - Bank 1 system too lean
P0304 - Cylinder #4
I guess that this is kinda what we thought initially (loss of power)...the one cylinder misfiring. I am thinking that the second error message could be the computer trying to correct for the misfiring of cylinder #2 by leaning out the mix? and that may have caused cylinder #4 to misfire. That is if they are on the same bank, cant remember right now (hungry). I bought some autolite wires (no motorcraft available - too bad too cause their numbered!) and motorcraft plugs, but I wanted to know if there is any further trouble shooting I can do before swapping out those parts. They are original to the car - 11 yrs and 73k miles :) Let me know what you think.
 
Yes, start by changing the spark plugs and wires. Note that you have to gap the plugs. Pregapped plugs = wrongly gapped plugs.

V6 Duratec Spark Plug Wiringorder

Note the 4-6-5 for the coil pack at the firewall side.

Firewall side
4- 6 -5 <--coil pack
3-2-1

1-2-3 <--engine
4-5-6
Radiator side

Spark Plug gap 0.054 inch
 
No go, replaced all plugs and wires - still having same trouble. I'm off to work...any other diagnostic routines that I can perform? I checked resistance of coil pack, the pins were within spec, the towers also checked out, they were .2 off spec, but they were all consistant with each other (all .2 off spec sheet).
 
I've been thinking of cleaning the injectors. I remember seeing a can of compressed cleaner that threads onto the fuel rail. If I'm not wrong, the 1999 2.5l does not have a fuel return line? I would need to disable the fuel pump (im guessing the rear inertia switch, unless there's something easier) and plug the vac. line to the fuel pressure regulator. Does anyone know of a cheap kit or cleaner with kit?
Thanks.
 
:shrug:
Any ideas of what I can do now? I wasn't able to troubleshoot the injectors like I wanted to, I didnt realize the UIM completely covers them up! I also couldn't find the pro. cleaner that I was thinking of. I'm cringing just thinking about having to bring it in.....like sheep to the slaughter. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone!
 
I pulled the maf this afternoon. Believe it or not, even though the air filter was somewhat dirty, the maf was nice and shiny. I did notice a thin coat of fuel varnish down the t.b., but I figure with the age of the car - no suprise. I didn't want to rush and clean it until I figure out whats going on. The last time I did a cleaning, it cost me an 02 sensor and a dpfe sensor (dont know why that went but it did after a t.b. cleaning) on top of the cleaning! :blackeye:

How do I reset the PCM? Is that something I want to try? Can I force the computer into a closed loop (use assumed sensor inputs) just to see if it will run correctly? How?
Also, how can I test the injectors while they are still on the car? Which wiring harness and connector has the wires for the injectors? What colors go to what injectors and what voltage should I be reading? Or am I going about this the wrong way?

Thanks!
 
TB isn't going to give you sputtering at idle. Perhaps clean out the IAC?

It's a pita to get to on these cars, but spray some carb cleaner in there. I had an idling issue around ~70k miles that was remedied by cleaning the IAC.
 
I can give it a try, I want to replace my pcv valve anyways. The IAC only will solve sputtering at idle though, I have this problem right thru the entire rpm band. While driving it bucks/rumbles/stumbles slightly (between 1200-2000+ rpm). Anyone know some of the answers on my post above ancientsanskrit's?


Thanks guys!
 
In regards to resetting the pcm...disconnect the battery's neg. terminal for something like 20/30mins, IIRC. Other than that, can't answer anything else. Sorry.
 
thanks! NP, i didnt realize the battery had to be disconnected that long. But by the time i clean the IAC and pry that pvc loose, it'll be longer lol. It took me 2 1/4 hours to do my plugs....:eek: Pretty embarassing, to be honest though, i was taking my time and numbering the wires with a silver sharpie and waiting for my compressor to pump up :rolleyes: LOL.
 
It only takes a few seconds to pull the cable, press the brakes and then reconnect the cable. Waiting 30 minutes is for suckers.
 
Dyoel182, are you saying to d/c the neg. terminal and hit the brakes? or d/c the plug to the pcm? Where is the pcm?! Anyone have a pic of this one? Is it up on the firewall somewhere? I never really got familiar with the electronic controls b/c they really never needed maintenance...until now (maybe).
Thanks all.
 
I'm saying pull the negative battery cable and push the brakes for a few seconds. You'll waste all the stored charge trying to light the brake lights without the wait.
 
Well after cleaning out the maf, upper intake and fuel injectors, replacing the fuel filter, plugs, wires and coil pack, checking the 02 sensor readings....i had to throw in the towel and bring it in. It turns out something I had completely overlooked! Cylinder 2 was completely dead and it wasnt for lack of fuel or spark - it was getting both, it just had 0 compression. My engine has had a slight tapping noise since around 30k miles or about 4-5 years ago. I didnt think it had gotten any worse, but apparently it must have. It turns out that a valve spring had shattered and was leaving a valve open. :blackeye: Damn, should have thought of that one. I was just so convinced that since this up and came out of nowhere that it had to be some kind of electrical or fuel issue. Never considered a mechanical failure.

Does anyone think that aside from replacing the spring I should replace the lifter as well? I am already into this for about $480, but I don't want to not spend another $10 if it will make the car last longer. What are your thoughts?

Thanks
 
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