steel vs stainless headers (aka - MSDS vs RaceBits) :)

[mmc757]

I have news for you...your accountability based on your years of personally experience fails to back your theory on if the steel headers is similar to the SS offered esp on our cars. Living in Michigan. i regret not getting the weapon r's when i had the chance. Biggest regret! My msds y-pipe rusted like no tomorrow...and my special ordered hot temp coating that msds shipped out to a jet hot coating company flaked off and the headers started rusting in 2 years. Now the rust has spread...and the welds are full of rust. Considering i put literally 3k miles a year on my car. It hasn't seen much of the abuse many others on here have given the msds headers. Imho...it was my biggest mistake.


On the side of looks! I can def see my headers from the top of my car. And when i showed off my SS tru duals...others always snooped under my car to see the whole exhaust. After all the hard exhaust bending and welding went to crap when you saw the front end of the exhaust. So yes it's crucial esp when your car is meant for more then just a daily driver.

Thats unfortunate that your coating failed. Your experience is not necessarily a common story though. If you didnt already, you should consider pursuing warranty replacement, as that coating should only fail if it wasnt properly applied in the first place (unless it took some damage somehow such as bottoming out while driving or getting dropped before installation). Either way, its no reason to get snotty. Just state your position so the OP can get the input he's looking for. You did point out something I didnt really address though, that the Y-pipe most definitely gets wet, and even though the stock one is just steel, any opportunity to use a better product should not be passed up.

[BrApple]

Not true. It all depends on the type of stainless steel not the 'cheapness' of it. 400 series SS will eventually stain/corrode sometimes in just a few months. 300 series SS will last quite a while but can eventually corrode ( but not rust). Most common in this series is T-304, this is what the WeaponR headers and I believe the new Racebits headers are made from. They will last quite a while, especially if coated with a high temp clear. T-316 is probably the best stainless you can get, but very few headers are made from it. A good summary of different stainless steels can be found here.

doh! I should have remembered that. That is what I was trying to get at. Thanks for explaining it better.

[Hydrargyrum]

All I know is that I am as excited as a kid in a candy shop about my Racebits... That said, I have never heard of anyone ever complain about stainless before... Looking forward to having no skin left on my knuckles one of these weekends...

[CSVT#49]

All I know is that I am as excited as a kid in a candy shop about my Racebits... That said, I have never heard of anyone ever complain about stainless before... Looking forward to having no skin left on my knuckles one of these weekends...

There are a few mustang guys that have headers and y-pipes made of T-409 as well as some Focus owners with a header that have complained... you can find some nasty looking pics, but that said they haven't corroded through from what I've seen so it's purely aesthetic.

[TRicker]

i didnt get to reading all of this thread, but i think i should say my 2 cents. take it or leave it.

i had stainless headers on my contour (weapon R) and loved them. the only spot where i had any corrosion whatsoever was on the rear flange weld on the Y pipe, just the weld seemed to rust/corrode a little bit. the rest of them looked like new (minus a little "purpling")


on snowmobiles, i have a little bit of experience with ceramic coating. the pros : it looks good and can be polished (usually comes polished by an automoated machine)

"most" ceramic coatings are rated for 1400 degrees constant. the problem with ceramic coating is it is very easily damaged. also, oil will almost instantly dull and possibly damage the coating, which is a problem unless you do your oil changes very carefully.

personally, if you are running a N/A exhaust system, i would go with a black ceramic coating, which is cheaper and won't be so ugly after it gets a scratch or two on it (you'll scratch your headers almost indefinately while installing them or installing an engine, unless your good "like me" lol)

if you are running a turbo'd setup, i recommend using an internal coating such as a "swain tech" coating on the inside (2000+ degrees) and a black ceramic on the outisde with header wrap to finish it all off. stealthy, and functional.

every "big boy" turbo setup i've seen has no coating on the downpipe, and just header wrap on it. i assume that would be because the turbo just gets too hot for any coating to stand up on the exit side of the turbo. i dunno

[CrazyTalkSVT]

There are a few mustang guys that have headers and y-pipes made of T-409 as well as some Focus owners with a header that have complained... you can find some nasty looking pics, but that said they haven't corroded through from what I've seen so it's purely aesthetic.

Yeah, I believe 409 stainless has a high metallic content making it a "magnetic" stainless. It's kind of like a cheap trash version of 304. I think alot of OEM so called stainless exhausts are made of 409, making them last longer than mild steel, but eventually they start looking nasty.

321 or Inconel is for the ballers! Something you should look more into for your engine build Mike.

[Harrry]

Thats unfortunate that your coating failed. Your experience is not necessarily a common story though. If you didnt already, you should consider pursuing warranty replacement, as that coating should only fail if it wasnt properly applied in the first place (unless it took some damage somehow such as bottoming out while driving or getting dropped before installation). Either way, its no reason to get snotty. Just state your position so the OP can get the input he's looking for. You did point out something I didnt really address though, that the Y-pipe most definitely gets wet, and even though the stock one is just steel, any opportunity to use a better product should not be passed up.

With what msds was and still offering, its very common. I don't know anyone around my parts of town that have not seen rust start on there headers. I do agree with a well specialized coating, rust can be non existent. But what was offered at the time was only a wish of what we believed was what we were paying for.

As you well pointed out the front header of mine was the most rusted of them all. The flange area was the initial culprit...and the spreading occurred. Now with all the money spent on coating and hoping it never occurs and etc etc. Stainless steel headers would remove the concerns forever.

just my 2 cents.

[hoodwanka]

Thanks Harrry a lot of good information there. I think I now know which ones to get when I have the money.

[dlphnfn]

Good stuff, and mostly on par with what I was thinking. Now I just need to talk the wifey into why I need to spend money on a car I never drive!
Erick --

[random_rodder]

Not trying to resurrect a dead thread, but, those RaceBits headers and Y-Pipe are the best looking ones I've seen - for any car. Really stellar work.

Makes me want to buy another SVT so I can do a 3L turbo'd set up on one, and use the RaceBits exhaust parts on a N/A car. Decisions... another CSVT or remain married...