zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
OP has a 1995. I'm failing to understand how his TDC notch couldn't line up. As I said, the damn thing is keyed.
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Crankshaft pulley timing marks
- Thread starter UmmScott
- Start date
OP has a 1995. I'm failing to understand how his TDC notch couldn't line up. As I said, the damn thing is keyed.
You misunderstand. I have never said you do not need to 'reset' the VCT. When you rotate the exhaust cam in direction of normal rotation to the internal stop you have done that. That's the purpose of the hex on cam. All you are doing is letting the VCT piston run from further back in the cylinder up to the front to bump against inside front cover, or what Ford calls the zero (no retard) or 'original' position. Look at the cutaway construction blueprint in service manual.
For those that cannot get it, here it is. The VCT motor times EXACTLY like non VCT after you have run the cam up to the internal VCT limit. Cam must be turned in normal direction up against the stop just before you insert camtool bar. If you did not loosen sprocket, you will find you are virtually dead on timing already.
If you roll motor around and cannot get tool back in, run cam forward again and recheck, tool should fall right in.
Now I am NOT saying one should NEVER loosen sprockets, sometimes things can be off just a bit and you may need to. I'd loosen the intake first if I could, that preserves VCT to cam phasing that was already known to be in running (no error codes) condition.
If things off a bunch, I'd suspect belt quality. That is indication of a belt with nonrepeating exact teeth location, or crappy belt.
'If the hub is not stationary (the belt holding it) it can stop anywhere. When the belt breaks the hub cannot be a positive stop because it is not being held in place by the belt.'
Not important. That's why the oil supply is splayed across 360 degrees in 3 feed segments. A simple oil feed ring needs no timing after supply and anti-backflow is established for 360 degrees. The lug must just goes in the cylinder right to set up the 360 degree thingie. The ONLY thing there that will affect cam timing is the front/rear position of the VCT piston. The feed ring/hub could theoretically be anywhere.
My friend, the only thing that can change once parts bolted down is the VCT piston location, that determines cam advance/retard, and nothing else. Once it is positively located by being at internal limit, or zero, you have max potential travel through operation as designed. Ford DOES tell you to do that, TSB or no.
'Use the book when it suits you? That sounds like many major religions I can think of. Ford doesn't put out books and then just forget about them. The books do get revised and updated. The procedures I use are as recent as 2008 when I got the TSB printed at the dealership. I've got the factory service manuals as well, maybe you should go to Ford and have the TSB's printed out for you.'
I use whatever resource I need to verify truth. I note you do not want to talk about being in error about VCT lug being able to go in anywhere, a clear cut case of you doing exactly what you accuse me of, not using ALL of the book. AS far as TSBs, why? All the ones I've done run perfectly with no error codes.
'Were any of those engines equipped with a varible cam system?'
I have set up many different types of belt drives on other equipment than car, using so many variable timed cam drives it's not funny. As many as 30-40 on same belt run. Super high speed printing equipment, belts up to 30 feet long pulling cylinders with weights in the thousands of pounds as well as so much monkey motion variable stuff your eyes would pop out. Belts driving other belts which again drive other belts. Chains out the wazoo also. These car motors are tinkertoys to me.
It becomes obvious why Ford made the procedure, but did it get made correctly? I submit as evidence all the problems people seem to have with these simple engines, the TSBs seem only to add to the bull••••. The only thing I knew to look for when doing my first one was that the VCT cylinder would have to positively in some certain known place for belt timing to be correct. I found the Ford procedure long ago but it did nothing to answer my question. I later found the answer on that page I mentioned, nothing else matters as long as you know where VCT is supposed to be when camtool inserted. All other neutralling or resetting talk is bull••••.
Follow them TSBs if you will, the stuff I do runs fine and for thousands of miles......................I will stop harassing you ZX2Fast, was not my intention anyway. I'm just a dick I guess.
I wholeheartedly apologize.........................and will now shut up.
Good luck with the dvd sales.
For those that cannot get it, here it is. The VCT motor times EXACTLY like non VCT after you have run the cam up to the internal VCT limit. Cam must be turned in normal direction up against the stop just before you insert camtool bar. If you did not loosen sprocket, you will find you are virtually dead on timing already.
If you roll motor around and cannot get tool back in, run cam forward again and recheck, tool should fall right in.
Now I am NOT saying one should NEVER loosen sprockets, sometimes things can be off just a bit and you may need to. I'd loosen the intake first if I could, that preserves VCT to cam phasing that was already known to be in running (no error codes) condition.
If things off a bunch, I'd suspect belt quality. That is indication of a belt with nonrepeating exact teeth location, or crappy belt.
'If the hub is not stationary (the belt holding it) it can stop anywhere. When the belt breaks the hub cannot be a positive stop because it is not being held in place by the belt.'
Not important. That's why the oil supply is splayed across 360 degrees in 3 feed segments. A simple oil feed ring needs no timing after supply and anti-backflow is established for 360 degrees. The lug must just goes in the cylinder right to set up the 360 degree thingie. The ONLY thing there that will affect cam timing is the front/rear position of the VCT piston. The feed ring/hub could theoretically be anywhere.
My friend, the only thing that can change once parts bolted down is the VCT piston location, that determines cam advance/retard, and nothing else. Once it is positively located by being at internal limit, or zero, you have max potential travel through operation as designed. Ford DOES tell you to do that, TSB or no.
'Use the book when it suits you? That sounds like many major religions I can think of. Ford doesn't put out books and then just forget about them. The books do get revised and updated. The procedures I use are as recent as 2008 when I got the TSB printed at the dealership. I've got the factory service manuals as well, maybe you should go to Ford and have the TSB's printed out for you.'
I use whatever resource I need to verify truth. I note you do not want to talk about being in error about VCT lug being able to go in anywhere, a clear cut case of you doing exactly what you accuse me of, not using ALL of the book. AS far as TSBs, why? All the ones I've done run perfectly with no error codes.
'Were any of those engines equipped with a varible cam system?'
I have set up many different types of belt drives on other equipment than car, using so many variable timed cam drives it's not funny. As many as 30-40 on same belt run. Super high speed printing equipment, belts up to 30 feet long pulling cylinders with weights in the thousands of pounds as well as so much monkey motion variable stuff your eyes would pop out. Belts driving other belts which again drive other belts. Chains out the wazoo also. These car motors are tinkertoys to me.
It becomes obvious why Ford made the procedure, but did it get made correctly? I submit as evidence all the problems people seem to have with these simple engines, the TSBs seem only to add to the bull••••. The only thing I knew to look for when doing my first one was that the VCT cylinder would have to positively in some certain known place for belt timing to be correct. I found the Ford procedure long ago but it did nothing to answer my question. I later found the answer on that page I mentioned, nothing else matters as long as you know where VCT is supposed to be when camtool inserted. All other neutralling or resetting talk is bull••••.
Follow them TSBs if you will, the stuff I do runs fine and for thousands of miles......................I will stop harassing you ZX2Fast, was not my intention anyway. I'm just a dick I guess.
I wholeheartedly apologize.........................and will now shut up.
Good luck with the dvd sales.
Rotating the cam against the stop is not resetting the VCT. The lug can stop anywhere, take your VCT gear off and move that lug and you'll see you can rotate it into any position you want. Put it upside down and see if you can get the cam to stop when you rotate it to put the lock tool in. It'll go past the normal stop position. I'm not taking my car apart to prove what it already known by Ford and anyone that actually has to set the VCT. People had these issues before the TSB's, the TSB's are to fix the issues.
95_Mystique
Hard-core CEG'er
I had a Honda in the shop about 2 weeks ago and the timing marks were 2 teeth off from what they should have been on the cam. I ended up making my own timing marks with a sharpie and the car ran fine. Dont know what was up with that, but the crank marks didnt line up with the cam marks what so ever.
Also, i've never had a problem with the alligning pin. Use the pin and the correct cam tool and you shouldnt have any problems what so ever. I've done 2 contours, a escort, and 2 Focus's and havent had too much of a problem. VCT is weird until you figure it out.
zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
Dunno about the Honda, but the end of the Zetec crank is keyed for the crank serpentine pulley to go on. It only goes on one way. By everyone's theory here, it is in essence the same as using the pin because there is only ONE way you can get TDC.
mcgarvey
Veteran CEG'er
It's because the rubber damper in the pulley hub was collapsed and broken, allowing the pulley to be moved slightly relative to the crank. Not normal-- should have sold them a pulley.
95_Mystique
Hard-core CEG'er
i'm talking about the marks on the timing belt sprockets weren't lined up right. plus the car only had 60K on it, and in mint condition.
dude, ill take a pic.....the marks DONT line up. The TDC peg worked perfectly. Thats why when i used the marks on the oil pan, the engine was never timed right and ran like crap....
And for everyone else, if i wanted a VCT procedure i would've asked for it...i just mentioned it. no worries tho.
(this thread is gettin good, i may grab some popcorn
Scorpion8
Hard-core CEG'er
I re-timed my "project" 98 Zetec today and didn't even use the timing marks on the crankshaft. I used the screw-driver method to get exact TDC, and the cam lock tool to set the cams. Re-installed everything else, and the engine fired smooth and pure on the first key turn. It has VTC, but I didn't do much besides re-install everything from the cams being removed (see this thread) and new camshaft seals. In short, it was pretty simple with lots of help from this place and ZX2Fast's video which helped me immensely!
There...is...a...notch. It is a notch with a small red dot surrounding it.
yes....i....know. however mine has two notches and my oil pan looks different. i wasn't trying to say that there are no notches or anything else. i was merely commenting on AMC's post. and i could be wrong about which one of the marks on my damper line up with TDC.
zorrex
Enjoys the Abuse
That's because you have a 98! These marks are for pre98, NON-VCT.
People. Can't. Read.