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Painting your car

FIND

Addicted CEG'er
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
6,103
Location
Vermillion, South Dakota
Site note: please embark on this how-to with CARE. This is not an easy task, nor for the faint-of-heart. Mistakes can be time consuming and costly. All methods below are that of the user and not a reflection of the site (or staff) and their views.


Before doing anything, wash your car with soap and water, and a good wax and grease remover. Make sure you get all the wax and grease removed or you will just drive it into your sanded surface and paint wont stick.

Make sure the area you are working in is very clean and very well ventilated.

you want to start by roughing up the old paint, if it is in good condition and hasnt been recoated before, you can paint right over the existing paint job. if the paint is badly peeling or cracked, you may have to take it down to bare metal and prime the whole vehicle to get good results. Sand to 400 grit for primer, 600 for paint.

once you are done sanding, clean the surface carefully, paint thinner or brake cleaner works good it, you dont want anything that will leave any type of residue on your sanded areas of your vehicle. also clean your work area. then its always a good idea to attach a copper wire from your frame of your vehicle to an earth ground, such as... the ground. this will prevent static buildup from the paint hitting the surface and that will keep dust out of your paint job.

Now lots of people tell you to wet the floor before you paint. Absolutely under no circumstances are you to do this. Urethane paints are a moisture cure paint. moisture on the floor will create humidity in the air, as this humidity rises it will pass through your spray. The paint drops several degrees in temperature as it leaves your nozzle and this will cause some of your paint to cure before it even hits your vehicle. this will also get lots of dust in your paint job.

Take your time in masking, paint will go everywhere you dont cover, so mask carefully. Also use premium body fillers, you dont want to use something cheap like bondo that shrinks or dries to quickly or unevenly. this will cause cracks as it cures and will show through your paint job.

now after priming, you may wish to spray a very very light coat of black over the vehicle, this will work as a guide coat cause it will collect in the low areas. You can use this as a sanding guide if you want a truly professional show quality finish.

Urethane parts on your cars, such as bumpers will not require a flexing agent to be added to your paint as long as you are using a urethane paint, but I do recommend that you use adhesion promoter so that the paint will stick well to plastic parts.

for the rest of this it is time to put on your charcoal respirator at least. you dont want to breath this stuff in.

now the rest is simple, mix the paint as the instructions that will be include with your paint says. for instance Nason black urethane requires 8 parts paint 1 part activator and 4 parts thinner. Formulas may differ from paint to paint. You can change the formulation slightly if you know what you are doing to accomodate different painting conditions, however over thinning paint just to stretch it if you dont have enough is really counterproductive, since the more you thin it, the more you lose in the air, and the less you will be able to cover. Now then back to mixing, you will need a measuring cup, no dont raid your momma's cabinets, buy a couple quart size measuring cups with easy to read graduations, you can purchase these at automotive stores or your paint dealer. Mixing 8 to 1 to 4 basically means that if you have 8 cups of paint you mix 1 cup of hardener and 4 cups of reducer. or you can have 4 cups of paint 1/2 cup hardener 2 cups reducer and so on.

stir your paint well, then pour it carefully in to the can on your paint gun through a filter. Use the cheap paper filters, they are more than enough, your dealer will usually give you a few dozen with your paint when you buy it.

Now comes the fun part. Read the instructions with your paint to determine which sized nozzle you want on your gun, and what pressures to run your gun at. You should also be very familiar with your gun so you know what guidlines you need to stick to. Now you want to start spraying, you are sitting there itching to put that paint on the car, but wait. turn to a piece of scrap, or even an old piece of plywood or cardboard, you want to spray a test pattern on it. This is so you can be sure you are getting proper atomization from your paint and you are getting the desired spray pattern. It is also good practice so that you can get the feel of how far you need to hold the gun and what speed to move to get your desired amount of coverage.

Now, you are ready to move on to your surface to be painted. you want to move along your surface in slow sweeping motions and keep your gun an even distance from your surface, while keeping the gun perfectly parallel to the surface. you want your spray to be even on all sides of the pattern, this mean your gun needs to be facing flat against your surface, if it isnt, you will see the waves, high spots, and roughness in your finished paint job. You cannot sand that out.

Now you will need to make at least 3 light coats for a single stage paint job, make sure you overlap at least 50% with every pass and make sure that you allow the paint to flash a short period between recoats, but not to long, cause you want some tackiness to the paint for the next coat to really grab onto. you do this and you will end up with a really nice smooth finish that you will ask yourself if you even need to sand when its done. A base clear paint job I usually find needs at least 2-3 coats of basecoat covered by 2 coats of clearcoat. Make sure you clean or change nozzles between your base and clear.
Now you need to stand back and admire you work for a little while, also let it dry, dont touch it, and let it sit undisturbed until it is finished drying.
you will want to wetsand and polish within 24 hours of painting for the best results, that way the paint is not fully cured and is easier to sand through. Yes you are taking paint back off that you put on, but not to much.
I may write a howto for wetsanding polishing buffing that kinda stuff, but IDK depends on if I get time, I am gonna go to bed for tonight. BTW if you look at my contour in my profile and want to say this guy cant know a thing about painting. I rattle canned that in my driveway one day when I was bored and my garage was out of service for the summer. it was hot, humid, there were thousands of bugs, and I live right next to a gravel road that gets a lot of traffic when girls want to bother me. lol. Anyways I am repainting it in a couple weeks, look forward to pics in my cardomain of the results. If you want to see some of my other work, pm me and I can send you pics of the semis I paint at work.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Question: do you sand between base coats and clear coating?

How much should a decent gun cost?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Question: do you sand between base coats and clear coating?

How much should a decent gun cost?

yes. I usually wetsand between base coat and clear coat for a smooth finish. Wait for your base coat to dry, generally about 30 minutes at 70 degrees. Start with 400 then 600 then 800 grit paper. Be careful not to sand off to much. Use wet sand paper, and plenty of water. Let the base coat dry for an additional 25-30 minutes, then you can lay your clear

Quality of guns vary. I recommend only using HVLP guns. You will find you use far less paint with an HVLP and it is much faster painting with an HVLP. This is because HVLP guns use lower air pressure, and the nozzles are made to spray a higher volume of paint while still atomizing it at lower pressure. You get less paint dispersed into the air when you are painting at a lower pressure, and less of your paint cures before hitting the surface you are painting, so your finish is generally better. Well easier to get better.
As far as cost of a decent gun, I have a $400 Snap-On gun at the farm, and it is the biggest pile of junk, it never works right and it leaks. If you arent a professional painter though, you dont have to spend 400-500 bucks on a gun. Although if you have the money to spend, and you want a high quality gun I recommend buying a SATA paint gun. They are usually around 500 bucks. You can go to napa and get decent paint guns for 100-200 bucks, and if you check Ebay you can find DeVilbiss paint guns for around 100 bucks. I wouldnt recommend buying a gun for under 100 bucks, you are getting what you pay for and you will be paying for nothing but trouble.
If you have more questions about guns, I would really recommend talking to your paint dealer, they usually sell paint guns, or if it is a body shop you are buying the paint from, they can set you up with their dealers to buy a gun.
BTW my dad has a Craftsman HVLP gun that he got for $100, I have used it a bunch, it works GREAT.
 
LOL this thread has me cracking up..No offense to the poster or anything but not just anyone can read somthing and go paint a car..
It took me about 6 months or training to get my painting to the perfection its at now..
And for a gun i use a Sada no where near 500 or a Grand and is a heck of a gun..
As for beginning to sand 400 grit wont do Shiz..
For the poster Do you paint on a daily basis?
I would like tp post some pics of my work that i do..lemme see if i have any..
 
LOL this thread has me cracking up..No offense to the poster or anything but not just anyone can read somthing and go paint a car..
It took me about 6 months or training to get my painting to the perfection its at now..
And for a gun i use a Sada no where near 500 or a Grand and is a heck of a gun..
As for beginning to sand 400 grit wont do Shiz..
For the poster Do you paint on a daily basis?
I would like tp post some pics of my work that i do..lemme see if i have any..

Perhaps I should have clarified. I only posted this because I run across a lot of posts where people ask about painting their car. You would have to be an idiot to paint a car based on a short writeup. However, maybe someone would be inspired to start trying smaller projects, or learning more about painting. This was just to show that painting is not some forbidden ninja art that only a select few can learn or brain surgery. It is something that with a little practice can be fun and easy. It can also save you a lot of money in labor. When I went back to edit for a disclaimer I saw that the moderator had already added one that was satisfactory, so I think that anyone who reads this will understand that you cant just go to the paint supply store and buy a gun and paint and start whipping out show quality cars from their driveway.
Also as far as 400 grit, I didnt say to begin sanding with that, I said that your final sanding for primer should be down to 400 grit. If a person cant figure out that one would start with a less fine grit than that, then I dont advise they paint. Depending on how much paint I want to take off I start with 60 or 120 grit paper.
Yes you can get guns cheaper. BTW check your gun, I believe you will find the correct spelling of sata involves a T.
No I do not paint every day. I paint a couple trucks a month. And then I paint smaller parts here and there, wheels, parts for equipment and so on.
If you dont like the write up, then why didnt you do one?
BTW, 6 months and you are calling your paint perfect? I have been doing it for years, and I think I could get better.
I promise to post up a couple pics of trucks and maybe trailers if I have any pictures, and I will post up pics of my car, as soon as I paint it. That will be the week of the fourth of july.
In the future, if you want to flame me, why dont you read what I wrote and then respond intelligently. And dont turn it into a pissing contest. Feel free to express your opinions, feel free to offer additional advice or warnings. Feel free to let people know that painting is not as easy as reading a few short lines and then turning the paint gun on your car and going to it.
If your response was motivated by the fact that you are a professional painter and you feel angry that the mere suggestion of an amature painting and taking away your business, dont fret. There are still very few people who will take on the task of painting their own cars, and business will still be good. This was just a little something to motivate the very enthusiastic DIYer to learn a new skill. One more write up on the internet is not going to be the downfall of the automotive refinish industry, my hope was that it would save some questions in other forums by providing some general information.
 
As for a write up (as stated above), this pretty much is a basic write up. (I'm not stealing this post, but supporting it) Painting does take time and LOTS of Practice and Lots of Patience. For a really good job you are going to want to take your time and prep your car ei sanding, cleaning etc ... Many shops use different types of guns for different jobs.
for example ...

- a dedicated primer gun, which could be the cheapest thing you got, because you are going to sand down before you apply your base coat. Putting primer down is 1) a good way to seal the last coat of paint that was on your car and 2) see if you have any rough spots or dents that you may have to address before laying down that final base/clear coat.

- a dedicated base gun (may have different caps for specialty paints ei metalics/perls) This may be one of the most expensive (or cheapest) depending if you like this sort of job.

- a dedicated clear gun for laying down the clear coat. Mostly because shops don't want to risk contaminating their gun with color pigments which could result in lost time and wages (its cheaper to buy a 1000 dollar gun than to repaint two cars for free because of pigments in the clearcoat)

Personally, I have two guns. A cheap 50 dollar HVLP 1.4mm tip that I use for primer and an iwata lph400 lvx 1.4mm tip with the lvb cap for metallics and perls, for my base and clear. Why do I have these guns? ... Well I paint aircraft as a part of my job.

If you are new at painting, IMO, I wouldn't start with a car. Start small, say a computer case, or a small metallic/wood storage cabinet. Get used to the gun and figure out the spray pattern you like. I know some guys who mist the paint on, and I know some guys who bombard the piece with paint. It does help to ask questions. Like with most things, the more you do it, the better you get.

As for paint,
I am not an affiliated with this product, but I do recommend using Endura paint. It is a very forgiving paint. cleans up easily and is very versatile (95% of the plastics out there, all metals and wood.)

Happy painting!
 
Supply Air questions...

Supply Air questions...

Thanks to FunIn[South]Dakota and Genesis14 for the good info and wise words. I am one of those that would like to be able to do paint someday.

I have questions about supply air:
- What size air compressor do you recommend as a minimum for an HVLP gun? (I'm pretty sure my pancake won't supply the volume required, even with auxiliary tanks. :rolleyes:)
- What about oil and/or water separators?

thanks
 
I have painted cars/trucks/planes for over twenty years and have never seen a paint system that recommends sanding the basecoat before clearing. Maybe for dirt or runs only. If you have a metallic colour you absolutely do NOT want to sand it as you cut or "bruise" the metal flakes in the colour, thereby altering the colour. Brake cleaner would also be a no-no in my book, as a proper pre-cleaner is cheap and easy to find.

Jim T.
 
Thanks to FunIn[South]Dakota and Genesis14 for the good info and wise words. I am one of those that would like to be able to do paint someday.

I have questions about supply air:
- What size air compressor do you recommend as a minimum for an HVLP gun? (I'm pretty sure my pancake won't supply the volume required, even with auxiliary tanks. :rolleyes:)
- What about oil and/or water separators?

thanks

Most people recommend about a 5hp air compressor to keep up with the volume of air that the gun would need. Auxillary tanks would increase the initial amount of air volume you would have, but it would be pointless since the air compressor would never be able to sustain the pressure. Check the guns, they will say the minimum CFM recommended that your air compressor delivers.
Yes you should run a water seperator, you dont want water in your paint, no you shouldnt run an oiler, you dont want oil in your paint.

I have painted cars/trucks/planes for over twenty years and have never seen a paint system that recommends sanding the basecoat before clearing. Maybe for dirt or runs only. If you have a metallic colour you absolutely do NOT want to sand it as you cut or "bruise" the metal flakes in the colour, thereby altering the colour. Brake cleaner would also be a no-no in my book, as a proper pre-cleaner is cheap and easy to find.

Jim T.

If you ask 2 different people how to do something, you will get 2 very different answers.

Brake cleaner will work as a quickie for a small part. It doesnt leave a residue, just dont use it on a surface that is already painted, since it will take off the paint. Proper pre-cleaners and wax and grease removers are the way to go however.

As for sanding, you can go either way with it. If I sand between coats, I am just doing it to rough up the surface. Sorry, you are right though, you generally dont want to sand a metallic base, however, when you take proper care, you can do so without altering the paint. If at all possible you want to avoid that. Actually though, anyone considering learning to paint, I recommend you start with basic colors, do metallics and pearlescents after you have some practice. Any runs or sags you make in a metallic paint job will never go away, since you will see it in the flakes. It will also be really easy to tell if you werent using your gun correctly, IE correct distance and direction from your surface. Finally when spraying a metallic paint, always paint the part with it sitting in the same position as it will be when it is mounted on the vehicle, IE dont stand a hood up on end, dont lay doors down on the floor.

Seriously though people. I want to make the point very clear right now. IF you want to start painting things. Try painting smaller things first. Try some wheels, or a cabinent, or your toolbox, anything like that. When you have gained the skills and confidence, move on up to something more challenging. Practice with basic things first. Dont do pearlescents or candies your first time out.

Also, do like alex894, get some instructional materials, DVDs, books, hell even buy your buddy at the body shop a beer.

One more thing, in my experiance, single stage paint is a little easier to work with. That means paint that doesnt require a clearcoat. Thats only because you will be putting on less coats, so it takes less time, and you have less chances to screw up. Its also usually cheaper. However, a single stage paint job is never going to look as good as a good base clear. Just my .02.
 
So have either of you guys found any mystery pics of the cars/trucks/whatever you've painted? You guys have got me looking at paint guns online, and wanting to go to town on painting my 'LS. :eek:

Mark
 
So which one of you guys are going to finally post some pictures of your work? I just ordered a DVD online on painting, and I'm looking hard at paint guns, online. I've got a POS car in my driveway that's basically decomposing that I could practice on, before I take aim on my 'LS! This thread seriously has motivated me to learn to paint!

Mark
 
whadddaya need pictures for? These are a few of mine, the only thing I squirted was the primer...my dad shot the paint



Before:

S-15.jpg



after:

S-15001.jpg




before:

Camaro.jpg

Camaro001.jpg


after:

Camaro006.jpg

Camaro009.jpg

Camaro007.jpg


before:

doghouse2.jpg



after:
d6ad3332.jpg
 
I hit a deer and replaced the right front fender both headlights and repaired the hood. The repaint was done with lacquer silver frost and clear coat. The fender was just painted with 2 coats. The hood was wet sanded with 1200 grit before touch up and paint (about 1 sq foot by the right side headlight) the paint was applied to cover the repaired area and misted over the hood enough to blend the colors. after the paint the clear coat was applied to the entire hood. DO NOTwet sand metallics, it will screw up the metalflake. After clearcoat wet sand the clear carefully to not break through the finish and buff the finish to a gloss. my repair with the blend made the repair invisable.
 
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