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Ford racing SVT focus brake kit

If you havent done the stainless steel brake hoses I fully recommend them to help with a soft feeling pedal. You should only notice extra softness if you switch to the focus caliper with the bigger piston.
 
Dyoel182 said:
If you havent done the stainless steel brake hoses I fully recommend them to help with a soft feeling pedal. You should only notice extra softness if you switch to the focus caliper with the bigger piston.
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done them and it didnt change the feel much if any. maybe a little firmer but the travel is still the same as before, and its too much in my opinion. I know the amount of travel it has is normal, i, like Rara, like less travel with more bite.
 
striker2 said:
done them and it didnt change the feel much if any. maybe a little firmer but the travel is still the same as before, and its too much in my opinion. I know the amount of travel it has is normal, i, like Rara, like less travel with more bite.
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Sounds like you need more master cylinder then. :)
 
im actually curious if the piston sizes are different between the pre98 Zetec and the SVT. I still have the master cylinder from my 97 so i could put it on if its actually different (cant imagine it is though).

I still think the biggest difference is because my pre98 didnt have ABS and the SVT does. every car i have driven with ABS seems to have a softer pedal with more travel than the version without ABS. :shrug:
 
striker2 said:
I still think the biggest difference is because my pre98 didnt have ABS and the SVT does. every car i have driven with ABS seems to have a softer pedal with more travel than the version without ABS. :shrug:
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I actually considered that once with my mazdas but a fresh fluid flush made them feel identical and I stopped thinking about it.
 
it was flushed when the braided lines were installed a couple weeks ago but i may do it again soon just to make sure all the air is actually out of the system. if that doesnt help i dont think there really is anything else i can do except replace the master cylinder or remove the ABS, neither of which i intend to do.
 
from reading this ive gathered.

if your brakes are in fine working order go with the warmonger kit, keeping the feel and travel the same but with more bite.

if your brakes are shot(like say brakes that have been sitting for over 3 years outside on the car) go ahead and just get the Focus SVT brake kit? getting a more mushy pedal but with increased bite.

could you upgrade the master cylinder to get rid of the mushy pedal?
or do anything else that would bring the feel back up or stiffer then original?
 
Your first option should always be replacing the parts you have with better parts, flushing the brake fluid and seeing what you think. You'd be amazed at how a beefy rotor and performance pads will feel when you're coming from an off the shelf rotor with off the shelf semi-metallic pads. There is always another brake pad with more bite and going to bigger brakes might not be needed until you get some brake fade out on the track.
 
striker2 said:
I agree, the SVT has too much pedal travel for my liking. i much preferred the travel of my pre98, very little travel before the brakes started to bite. that being said, the only difference between the systems is the SVT has ABS which adds to amount of fluid that needs to be moved.

ive been debating on upgrading to the 300mm brakes but was always concerned about making the pedal softer, which since i think its too soft already, would be a problem. Short of removing the ABS, any good way to shorten the pedal travel?
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First off, removing the ABS will have no perceptible effect on pedal travel or effort. Brake fluid, especially fresh fluid with no air bubbles, is incompressible, so any movement of the master cylinder is directly translated through the entire system to the caliper pistons.

If you only want to alter the pedal travel vs. braking force relationship, ie increase brake force for a given pedal travel, the easiest way to do that is either use more aggressive pads, or increase rotor diameter. Things like installing steel brake lines in place of rubber ones will also help a bit, by reducing hysterisis in the system (also, never install an adjustable brake bias valve unless you really need it, the hysterisis in those are TERRIBLE. adjustable brake bias is best done with a proper pedal set with multiple master cylinders, see tilton for some of the best examples)

If you want to affect pedal force as well, you can start to consider things like increasing master cylinder bore, decreasing pedal ratio, decreasing booster ratio, etc. but none of these will do much for improving the brake force.
 
The actual brake force is fine, i just would like it to start biting sooner. even with crap pads and rotors and 10 year old brake hoses, my 97 had very little travel before the brakes started to bite.

now the SVT when i bought it, and every other SVT i have been in, has significantly more travel before the brakes start to bite. I have already upgraded rotors, Redstuff pads, and installed braided lines but nothing has changed the pedal travel (the overall brake force obviously increased with the pads and rotors). obviously i have bled them several times and the fluid has been flushed once, recently, as well.

since i have a 2000 which uses the same style cailper as my 97, the only difference between them is the ABS system and the corresponding master cylinder. I actually had the pads and rotors on the 97 originally for a little while and the brake force between the 2 cars is the same, the SVT just requires the pedal to move farther to do so.

IMO this means that either the caliper piston is moving back farther after releasing the brakes, or there is something different about the ABS system (includes the master cylinder since the ABS uses a different master cylinder, 2 ports instead of 4). now i cant imagine Ford would have changed to a smaller piston bore in the master cylinders for the SVT. this leaves the ABS system or the calipers. the caliper doesnt make a whole lot of sense since its the same design, which only leaves the ABS system. now like you said, not sure why it would cause more pedal travel but it seems its the only option left, unless of course, there is still air in the lines somehow or i missed something.
 
you're going to have to trust me, its not the ABS. When the ABS valves are closed (ie, any time you aren't in a panic stop) it acts as a straight through passage, pretty much just like a plain brake tube.

Did your GL have drum brakes in the rear?
 
initially it did, but the pedal travel didnt change when i swapped to rear discs. like i said, the only difference between the 2 cars is the ABS system as i swapped all the upgrades to the SVT when i parted the Zetec.

I dont see how it could be the ABS system either but since its the only difference between the 2 setups, logic says its the problem. now could it be that there is air in the lines somewhere, sure. but seeing as i have bled them numerous times and flushed it once i dont feel its likely.

ill probably just live with it, since its not like they dont work, although the ABS sometimes kicks on when it doesnt need to. when im doing ~<5MPH and just easing to a stop it will kick on, but thats a seperate issue. i suspect thats either a sensor or a reluctor ring somewhere.
 
Rara said:
you're going to have to trust me, its not the ABS. When the ABS valves are closed (ie, any time you aren't in a panic stop) it acts as a straight through passage, pretty much just like a plain brake tube.

Did your GL have drum brakes in the rear?
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Assuming the ABS valves are completely closed. I have replaced numerous ABS valves on various different vehicles, including a contour, because 1 or more of the valves was not operating correctly. If the valves are not operating correctly it may bleed brake pressure all the time, not just in a panic stop.

The first thing I would do is find a place where you can perform a few full ABS actuated stops then bleed the system again. I have found on more than one occasion that getting the ABS to actuate and then bleeding the system released trapped air bubbles.

Also one more thing to check is the pushrod in the power booster. Its been a while since I have had a Contour master cylinder off but the pushrod may have an adjustment that would decrease the pedal travel. With somebody in the car, remove the bolts holding the MC to the booster, relieve vacuum in the booster and have the person press the pedal down very slowly while you hold the MC noting how much pedal travel it takes before the MC is pushed off the booster. If there is an adjustment it will be right at the end of the pushrod and you will need to do very fine adjustments because if you go too far it can apply pressure to the brakes all the time.
 
SVTGT350 said:
Also one more thing to check is the pushrod in the power booster. Its been a while since I have had a Contour master cylinder off but the pushrod may have an adjustment that would decrease the pedal travel. With somebody in the car, remove the bolts holding the MC to the booster, relieve vacuum in the booster and have the person press the pedal down very slowly while you hold the MC noting how much pedal travel it takes before the MC is pushed off the booster. If there is an adjustment it will be right at the end of the pushrod and you will need to do very fine adjustments because if you go too far it can apply pressure to the brakes all the time.
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I will hit on some of the other stuff later on when I have time, but I can't leave this one sit.

BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL IF YOU TRY TO ADJUST A BRAKE BOOSTER OUTPUT ROD. I cannot emphasize that enough. If you don't know exactly what you are doing, and exactly how the system works, don't do it. Adjusting the output rod out too far by even the smallest amount, can result in an internal seal failure in the master cylinder (called seal nibble) and potentially lead to a complete failure of the brake system. The problem here is that it doesn't happen immediately, and you won't be able to tell if you've set yourself up for this failure until after it occurs. And it definately won't be noticed using the method that SVTGT350 mentions above, in fact, it sort of sets you up for the failure. If you must adjust the output rod, you need to makes sure that the master cylinder piston does not move AT ALL from its free rest position when the system is assembled, and the brake pedal is not applied. ie the output rod cannot be allowed to move the master cylinder piston until the pedal is actually depressed.
 
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from what i remember when i pulled all that apart from my Zetec, the pushrod on the Contours does have any sort of adjustment. even if there was that would be a last ditch effort. I think there is probably air stuck in ABS module that i havent been able to get out. I will be bleeding them again next weekend and will see if i can get any sort of change out of them. its entirely possible that Ford intentially built the ABS cars this way, although im not sure why they would make that engineering change, as multiple people without ABS have very little pedal travel but those with ABS have similar travel to mine.
 
Not sure if it was posted here yet, but which FSVT rotors are you guys using with the warmonger kit? I'm seeing 3-4 brands and am not sure which one is the best to get. I see the centric ones are vented or all they all vented?

My brakes are pulsing a bit so a change is in my future over the summer so I might as well upgrade while I'm at it.
 
They are all vented, including the ones on your car now. Centric is an exceptional brand. As for myself, I bought slotted and drilled from an ebay auction and I couldn't be happier.

I will be the first to warn you that slotted and drilled do nothing to improve braking, and under extreme conditions (racing), cracks tend to start from the drilled holes. The holes and slots are stress risers and lead to fatigue sooner than if they were not there.

That said, I did it for the looks (and they do look good, very good). Normal street driving (even occasional or frequent spirited driving) should never be an issue.
 
guys i was just at tousley ford talkin to steve the other day.

He assured me that the kit comes with the following:

2 rotors,
2 lines,
4 caliper bracket bolts
4 caliper bolts
2 calipers,
2 caliper brackets


it is a FULL FRONT KIT. its 302$ and it will bolt on with a 3MM washer and a slightly longer bolt *use a factory style bolt, you dont want brake bolts snapping off*

so, in conclusion, Rara, your right. like usual.
 
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