My 98 Contour SE 2.5L V6 DOHC Wont Start

[LensContour]

Hello all,

I have a 98 Contour SE 2.5L V6 DOHC that I am having problems starting.

Sometimes it starts and sometimes it doesn't.
When I go to start it all the dash lights come on but that's it.

How can I tell if the problem is the Starter, the Ignition or the Solenoid?
If I get it started and take it down to get it tested I am afraid it wont start again to drive home, I had it towed home yesterday.

I need my car to go to work so I appreciate any help you can offer.
Thanks
Len

 

[LensContour]

I should add that when I do try and start it a low buzzing noise does come from the engine for about 3 seconds.

Thanks

 

[hylix]

Are you sure that low buzzing isnt coming from under the rear seat? If it is, then it's probably just the fuel pump.

Some things that might help diagnose you issue:

Do you have an Anti-theft LED on the dash, and does it blink when it fails to start? If so, are you using two different keys?

Do the dash lights dim at all when trying to start (when it doesn't start)?

Do you have any Check Engine Lights on (besides when the key is on, with the engine off)? Does the Check Engine light blink at all?

Did anything strange or unusal happen just before this problem began?

When turning the key to 'Start', do you hear a click or clicking?

Did you recently run lower on fuel than you usually do?

When it does start, does it run normally, and is the idle smooth?

 

[LensContour]

Are you sure that low buzzing isnt coming from under the rear seat? If it is, then it's probably just the fuel pump.

Yes, I just had my wife try and start it just now while I laid on the ground and yes, the humming/buzzing sound is coming from underneath the car.

Do you have an Anti-theft LED on the dash, and does it blink when it fails to start? If so, are you using two different keys?

I do and it normally blinks when the car is off and when I go to start it, it goes sold.
I only have 1 key, when I got the car last year there was only one key.

Do the dash lights dim at all when trying to start (when it doesn't start)?

No dimming, all the lights are fine.

Do you have any Check Engine Lights on (besides when the key is on, with the engine off)? Does the Check Engine light blink at all?

Yes the check engine light has always come on when the gas is low, it goes off when I fill up the tank.
I bought a new gas cap a few months ago but it didnt fix the problem.

Did anything strange or unusal happen just before this problem began?

No, nothing strange, drove fantastic.

When turning the key to 'Start', do you hear a click or clicking?

No clicking at all.

Did you recently run lower on fuel than you usually do?

Yes, but it does have a 1/4 tank of gas.

When it does start, does it run normally, and is the idle smooth?

Yes, very smooth, have always been impressed with how it drives and how fast it is.

It does have almost 130k miles

Thanks hylix

Update:

I completely forgot that this car has a Fuel Pump shutoff toggle switch below the driver side dash.
I never used it before but I just now trying switching it on and off and still nothing.
My neighbor just told to try and disconnect it and tie the wires together so I did that, it was easy to do but it still didn't work.

Thanks again.

 

[DanMyers]

If the lights don't dim, then I'd imagine its the solenoid, if the battery was low on power or the starters drive end stopped spinning, the lights would dim due to the sudden large draw. Since the solenoid is a break between the starter and the battery, if it weren't engaging all that power would simply go to the solenoid from the battery and stop completely, maybe even causing an audible buzz. Have someone crank the car while you gently tap on the starter solenoid with something like a piece of wood, or I've used a long handled ratchet handle, but remember GENTLY, you're just trying to nudge the solenoid into action.

The starter is under the throttle body and the solenoid is the smaller cylinder that rides on the body of the starter, should have one of the positive wires from the battery attached to it.

 

[LensContour]

If the lights don't dim, then I'd imagine its the solenoid, if the battery was low on power or the starters drive end stopped spinning, the lights would dim due to the sudden large draw. Since the solenoid is a break between the starter and the battery, if it weren't engaging all that power would simply go to the solenoid from the battery and stop completely, maybe even causing an audible buzz. Have someone crank the car while you gently tap on the starter solenoid with something like a piece of wood, or I've used a long handled ratchet handle, but remember GENTLY, you're just trying to nudge the solenoid into action.

The starter is under the throttle body and the solenoid is the smaller cylinder that rides on the body of the starter, should have one of the positive wires from the battery attached to it.

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your suggestion, I did try what you suggested but unfortunate it didn't work.
Also, I wanted to add that I checked the Solenoid Relay Switch and when I go to turn on the car the relay switch clicks, does that mean it is ok?

I appreciate everyone's suggestions.

Thanks again
Len

 

[gorman]

Len; with the engine off, using a multimeter,

check the resistance the engine/ chassis ground lead also measure the voltage at the starter positive lug and alternator positive connection

undo, strip and clean both battery connections

a buzzing sound can often be a loose power connection, positive or ground

Also; a healthy battery should have over 12v and when the engine is running, have 14.4v across it from a healthy charging system .... G.

 

[hylix]

So PATS fuel pump, and battery voltage do not seem to be suspect because A) The buzzing is probably the fuel pump, B) The PATS light seem to be normal, and C) No evidence of clicking while while cranking.


Like Dan mentioned, because the lights don't dim a little when cranking, the starter is probably not being activated.
The starter may not activate for several reasons...
A bad solenoid (most likely at this point)
PATS Anti-theft (fairly ruled out)
Low battery voltage (no evidence of clicking would make this unlikely)
Aftermarket alarm system with a faulty Starter kill relay/wiring.
bad ignition switch.

Yes the check engine light has always come on when the gas is low, it goes off when I fill up the tank.
I bought a new gas cap a few months ago but it didnt fix the problem.

This seems odd... Is this the "Low Fuel" light or is it actually a "Check Engine" light? You may have low fuel pressure. Still that would produce different symptoms that you have stated.

Sometimes, when you run the tank very low in a highmilage car, the pump may pick up some sediment from the bottom of the tank and clog the fuel filter, or break the pump. This would cause a low fuel pressure situation, which again, we don't have evidence to support.


I'd check the two things above in bold because we have not yet ruled them out.

Does the car have an aftermarket alarm installed (Viper, Clifford, Audiovox, Karr, etc)?
If it does, it may be the starter kill relay. We can test that and the ignition switch at the same time. If we find trouble, we can continue to narrow down which one it may be.

You need to get a multimeter, or test light, if you don't already have one.

Locate the starter solenoid under the air cleaner/MAF/Accordian tube assembly.
It will have a large wire bolted to it (4-6 gague), and a smaller wire, maybe 12 gague or so.
ground one side of your multimeter or test light, and probe the smaller wire connection while someone tries to crank the car, (you can pull the fuel pump and coil fuses to prevent it from starting). If you have good voltage here, then I would bet the solenoid has failed. If you do not have 12+ VDC there, then you may have a bad Ignition switch, or a starter kill relay problem with the aftermarket alarm.
(Just to note, I recently had this same problem, and I found that the smaller wire connecting to the solenoid had a broken connector, inside the heatshrink where it connect to the solenoid.)
If you trace that small wire back a couple of feet, to the power distribution/fusebox by the battery, there is a connector where you can disconnect the wire and test to verify if the wire is good. If you have 12+ VDC at this point, but not at the solenoid, you probably have a broken connector. Easy to fix.

As Gorman pointed out. Make sure you have a good, clean, and tight battery connection before testing electrical.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[LensContour]

Hey everyone,

Well, I think my problem maybe solved

A neighbor of mine has a friend who is a mechanic take a look at it and he believed it was the aftermarket security system that was shorting out my ignition so he removed it and it seems to be fine but only time will tell.

I never used the security system since I never had a remote for it so no loss there.

So I want to Thank everyone who tried to help

 

[hylix]

Glad to hear it! Looks like I really was onto something

 

[DanMyers]

Haha you certainly were, honestly I never even though about a security system, what would be the point in installing one with PATS?

 

[hylix]

I have a viper in my car. There are some nice things about it:

MUCH longer range on the remote. I lose my car in parking lots a lot. Setting off the alarm helps me find it

It can also automatically locks the doors and arms after a certain amount of time, if you wanted it to.

Mine also has remote start, and "window mods". I can start the car from the comfort of my bed on those cold Colorado mornings. and I can vent/roll down the windows just before I leave the office on those hot summer days. The windows also automatically roll up when the alarm is armed.

The starter kill is necessary on a remote start system since it prevents people from grinding their starter when they insert the key and turn it on while it's remote started. But it's also included in almost all alarm models, so it is commonly installed regardless of PATS.

I also retrofitted a trunk pop solenoid on my car so I can open the trunk with the remote.

I used to install alarms and sound systems when I was a teenager, so it's just natural for me to install my own aftermarket gear. I guess one could get along just fine with the factory stuff. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[DanMyers]

Well, hey if it works for you, whatever. My bros 2009 328i (well, he did have one, just totaled it yesterday) does the window and moonroof open thing with the stock keyless and I like it, but personally, that would be the only reason I'd want one.

Be careful with the remote start, since you have to park it in neutral you have to be very careful to set the E-brake every time, my bro had a Contour exactly like mine in about 2003 and used to not park it in gear, one day he parked it in our short, flat looking driveway and forgot to set the E brake, it rolled backwards out of the driveway, through a foot deep ditch on the other side of the road and through my neighbors yard into a tree backwards at 35MPH, it was totaled. I'm sure you're aware of that, but even the imperceptible slant for water runoff was enough to get that car moving quickly.

I've never seen anyone bat an eye at a car alarm going off, it's certainly not a reaction you'd want for sure, more one of annoyance than concern that your car was being broken into. The PATS system is very hard to defeat, however, so as long as you don't leave anything very valuable in the car it shouldn't go anywhere even without the alarm.

As you correctly stated though, to each his own.