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Machining an SVT Block Need Help

B

BlueSupreme

CEG'er
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
56
Location
Tolland County, Connecticut
Ok, so I own a 1999 SVT Contour that needed machine work done to the block when I bought it. I want to restore this car with the original engine as it is pretty much stock with almost nothing missing. The kid that owned it before me blew up cylinder 1 to smithereens and the one cylinder needs to be resleeved. But the guy at the machine shop bought an off the shelf sleeve and when he went to bore out the old one there was still old sleeve material left. He is afraid that if bores more or does anything else that he might ruin the block and asked me to see if anyone else has had this issue before and knows how much more he can go.

I did a quick search on the forums but couldn't really find anything about how far you could go on a stock 2.5 SVT block, also my crankshaft is unusable does anyone know if I can throw in a standard Duratec 2.5L crank into an SVT or are they different?
 
Put a 3L long block in and call it a day. Port the intakes on the 3L heads and use your stock SVT intake setup. SVT and non-SVT cams are different FYI.
 
Nope, not engine swapping it, even if the block becomes useless I will still put a 1999 SVT engine in it. I want the car to be as original as possible, the car is very clean and has surprisingly very very little rust. Nothing will change my mind for this particular car, my 1997 Sport on the other hand... sure I'll throw an LS in it when I get another daily for all I care. I was looking for information on how much can I bore out, I'm trying to keep it as close to a 2.5L as possible. Was wondering if anyone else has tried to machine a stock SVT block before and what advice can they give me. Side question, how well do those 3L hold up to boost, wouldn't a 2.5L be stronger?
 
Even a pure-ist will be mad to find out you spent all that time and money rebuilding a 2.5L instead of putting in a 3L.
 
blu_fuz said:
Even a pure-ist will be mad to find out you spent all that time and money rebuilding a 2.5L instead of putting in a 3L.
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion, a purist would be happy to have matching serial numbers :tongue2:. Regardless, if I wanted to be time/cost-effective I would have already swapped in a 3L engine but I'd rather get the experience and satisfaction of restoring the car.

Ok, so Mr. 30 Contours / Mystiques and counting :cool: I have a few questions for you.

Since I'm guessing you've dealt with a few contour engines before do you have a spare 1999 SVT engine?

Do you know if I can use a crankshaft from a regular 2.5L or do I have to get a crankshaft from an SVT 2.5L engine?

How strong is the 3.0L block compared to the 2.5L when it comes to using a turbo?

I've tried searching other topics on the forum but nothing has really answered my questions.

UPDATE: My machine shop is going ahead with the bigger bore and putting a sleeve in from LA Sleeves with a flange on the top. Once the block is finished getting work done the plan is to buy K1 rods and slightly bigger 2.5L Diamond pistons. Yes a little excessive for an N.A. rebuild but it's what others have used in the past.
 
1. There are no matching serial numbers
2. No, any blown 2.5L SVT motor was parted out,
3. Crankshaft is the same AFAIK, CAMS, pistons, heads, timing equip, is all different.
4. Don't know. From what I've read, the block is going to handle everything you put at it 2.5L or 3L, the bottom end won't.
PS, you want the engine to be as original as you can but are boring, sleeving, K1 rods, and diamond pistons?

Besides the CHEAP additional power of a 3L, the oil starvation is damn near eliminated and the coolant passages are bigger on the 3L.
 
Yeah im sitting here scratching my head because if you bore it out. then it would be just like the designers of the duratec motor boring it out more to become the 3L duratec. But over all its still a good build your doing just simply not the most bang for your buck or effecient.
i myself just purchased a 3L hybrid and cant wait to rebuild it. (ive only had full 3L experience). Car even comes tuned already wooohooo
 
blu_fuz said:
1. There are no matching serial numbers
2. No, any blown 2.5L SVT motor was parted out,
3. Crankshaft is the same AFAIK, CAMS, pistons, heads, timing equip, is all different.
4. Don't know. From what I've read, the block is going to handle everything you put at it 2.5L or 3L, the bottom end won't.
PS, you want the engine to be as original as you can but are boring, sleeving, K1 rods, and diamond pistons?

Besides the CHEAP additional power of a 3L, the oil starvation is damn near eliminated and the coolant passages are bigger on the 3L.
Click to expand...

Thank you this was actually really helpful, everyone kept saying to go 3L and never gave me a detailed reason as to why.
1. I'm pretty sure there had to be serial numbers on the engine and they must have been of some significance but ok.
2. I'm not surprised I'm probably going to do the same thing to a separate SVT engine for my sport with a 3L like montrese04 is planning.
3. This just saved me from having to buy an SVT engine but I'll still use an SVT crank if I can.
4. Interesting, was just curious for my sport.

Ok so this was a good point you brought up, unfortunately, the previous owner did so much damage that almost all pistons had bits taken out of them, not including the exploded cylinder 1. The bore is only going to be enough to resurface and match the rest, machine shop says it should still be able to stay a 2.5L it's just slightly larger than stock. I could go with a used set of rods but there's no point as we all know factory rods were the big weakness in these engines. So yes you are correct the fact that I am replacing so many internals is not going to help my case as part of the value and I haven't even had the machine shop look at the heads which also saw some damage. I would have to consider a few different options, one being a 3L swap if the heads are unsavable because eliminating oil starvation now spikes my interest more. I am not going for power and I'd still like to have an example of an original feeling SVT but we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
 
Block, crank, and rods are all the same. Every DOHC 3.0 or 2.5 has a forged crank, all exactly the same part. Only difference is the 3.0 has a bore of 3.503 inches, which is just an over bore on the original V6. There are no 'purists' in the CSVT world, only those looking for more torque and HP.
 
crewchiefpro said:
Block, crank, and rods are all the same. Every DOHC 3.0 or 2.5 has a forged crank, all exactly the same part. Only difference is the 3.0 has a bore of 3.503 inches, which is just an over bore on the original V6. There are no 'purists' in the CSVT world, only those looking for more torque and HP.
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crewchiefpro:
Well, it sounds like I'm the first purist in this world because I'm keeping #583 stock unless I can't find a replacement part or it makes it more durable like the upgraded rods where it doesn't make sense to go stock. I noticed that you have a 400+hp contour, do you have a build page as CSVT#49 and blu_fuz does? His topic has helped me find a few possible sources for engine internals. Also, do you still have A/C in that contour of yours if it has all those exhaust and intake pipes are running everywhere? I'm really intrigued as to how other members have set up the turbos in these cars.


Hey, blu_fuz quick question:
On your pre98 turned into SVT what parts did you change from pre98 to SVT when it comes to suspension?
 
All of the V6 suspension is interchangeable as complete assemblies from 95-00. There were some spring perch and coil spring shape changes through from 95-97 to 98-00 but if you keep the compete assembly components from the same year ranges, the assembly can be swapped through all the years. I have H&R springs (1.5" lower than stock) on NAPA shocks, that's all.

I'm on the same page as you trying to build a reliable daily, and not interested in all the power I can get. Reliability is worlds more important to me that anything else. If it isn't reliable, then it's trash to me. Also, I love cars that have mods that confuse the audience about parts that are stock or not. Just a clean upgraded look is the best on these cars. Even the SVT, just make it reliable and keep it clean, they don't need to be anything else but that.

hanks for looking through my build thread, photobucket has really ruined the flow of it! ha

My 95 is a port matched 3L. I went that route because I don't have tuning options with the 1995 being OBD1. I also really like the look of the stock intake. Another point is that I didn't want to be in a situation where I couldn't take my car to a mechanic and as soon as they pop the hood just tell me they won't work on it because of the modifications. My car is under fueled, too small of lower intake ports, and un tuned going from a 1995 2.5L V6 with 130hp at the wheels to a 2005 3L Sable V6 with 190+ hp at the wheels for VERY cheap as far as motor swap costs go. I've put almost 65,000 miles on the engine problem free since the swap in 2008. To this day, it is still my daily driver in the summer.
 

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I had a feeling the suspension was very similar when I took both of the engines out I could see that they weren't much different, even in the rear. I assume that you are getting better handling than your factory setup correct, if so would you recommend me doing the same?

Yeah, for now, I am going to throw another 2.5L in my sport, I had my blinders on but I could have bought a 3.0L to put in my daily, too bad I've got 4 of these engines now... But yeah I blew my head gasket because I was being stupid with the coolant issues I was dealing with at the time. It sputters real bad now and refuses to start for about a minute but the only thing I can do is pull it, I can also fix my d*** exhaust leak and listen to just my Borla exhaust for once :grin:. So yeah if the car is still on the road in 3 years when I don't have to get my CT emissions done that's when I'll start doing some REAL power adders.

Aw, man, I love that painted intake and carbon fiber cover. How did you do that exactly? If I had money to throw around I'd have the whole top of the engine, hood, and fenders in carbon fiber to help with weight distribution because F/R 63%/37% is a bit meh. I have no problems with fixing my car myself, but a newer BMW.... yeah I'll let the dealer deal with those crappy timing chain guilds haha.

Yeah OBD1 huh? Is it possible to do a conversion? I'd like to do a megasquirt so I could learn how to tune my own car but that is a bit far out of reach right now.
 
BlueSupreme said:
crewchiefpro:
Well, it sounds like I'm the first purist in this world because I'm keeping #583 stock unless I can't find a replacement part or it makes it more durable like the upgraded rods where it doesn't make sense to go stock. I noticed that you have a 400+hp contour, do you have a build page as CSVT#49 and blu_fuz does? His topic has helped me find a few possible sources for engine internals. Also, do you still have A/C in that contour of yours if it has all those exhaust and intake pipes are running everywhere? I'm really intrigued as to how other members have set up the turbos in these cars.


Hey, blu_fuz quick question:
On your pre98 turned into SVT what parts did you change from pre98 to SVT when it comes to suspension?
Click to expand...

I had several posts of how I built most of the engine. I have tried multiple turbos since then in the search for more torque instead of all out HP. The car is fun, and we continue to improve every aspect of the performance.

I have A/C that is ice cold, wife needs to borrow the car from time to time so that is a requirement.
 
crewchiefpro said:
I had several posts of how I built most of the engine. I have tried multiple turbos since then in the search for more torque instead of all out HP. The car is fun, and we continue to improve every aspect of the performance.

I have A/C that is ice cold, wife needs to borrow the car from time to time so that is a requirement.
Click to expand...

That's absolutely crazy you have a 400+hp contour that still has working AC. How did you do it? Is there a way I can see pictures of this build or links to some of those posts? I'm just really curious how you route all the hoses and pipes for the turbo with such a tight engine bay.

Update: As far as my SVT goes I've got Mahle pistons for the SVT and I'm going to rob a crankshaft from one of the other spare duratec engines I have. I'm still going to stick with the k1 rods but the stock Mahle pistons will do as it saves a little money. My sport's clutch is now toast so it's time to pull the engine again and I'm trying to port/polish the heads for the replacement engine for that car.
 
BlueSupreme said:
That's absolutely crazy you have a 400+hp contour that still has working AC. How did you do it? Is there a way I can see pictures of this build or links to some of those posts? I'm just really curious how you route all the hoses and pipes for the turbo with such a tight engine bay.

Update: As far as my SVT goes I've got Mahle pistons for the SVT and I'm going to rob a crankshaft from one of the other spare duratec engines I have. I'm still going to stick with the k1 rods but the stock Mahle pistons will do as it saves a little money. My sport's clutch is now toast so it's time to pull the engine again and I'm trying to port/polish the heads for the replacement engine for that car.
Click to expand...


The A/C has not changed from stock. The turbo pipes are a struggle for sure, but doable.
Nautilus Performance Group stainless steel turbo kit with modifications for different turbo sizes. It isn't easy to plumb but I used to work on it all the time and had no struggle I couldn't deal with.

There are posts about the engine build but I didn't post anything about the different setups since we tested many different things ( cams, turbos, pipes ). Like any project it will never be complete, however, I have driven this for 24,000 miles at 24 lbs of boost with no serious issues. Other than the cold engine noise and the clutch being a bit harsh for the wife to drive, it drives like a stock CSVT until it hits boost.​
 
That's something else, would love make my own 400+hp contour someday and still have the stock a/c in it.

Machine shop finished with my block, it got a new sleeve and block is saved, the crankshaft was replaced with a 99 mystique crank that I had, Mahle pistons went to the machine shop and I'm waiting on pistons rings and the k1 rods from nautilus to be delivered to take to them to balance everything. Then it's onto the heads which could be the tricky part, wont know until we get there.
 
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