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Noble 3L info

S

SJon85

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
906
I just learned about the nobles the other day while reading jageds recent spun bearing thread so I dont know much about them. I have been gathering info on several different forums about the noble motors and im just wondering why no one has used a noble motor seeing that you can get them for 4.5k and they have been proven to hold close to 1000hp with no problems.

I am working on getting a turbo kit from NPG right now which im sure is going to lead to some kind of forged internals in the future. The noble motor seems like a logical choice, but I would like other opinions on that.

I read something about needing an ecu that will run oil squirters, but I know csvt#49 just had them installed and hasn't mentioned anything about that.

Here are pics of how the noble motors come from AER.

engine_back.jpg

In this pic it looks like the oil pan is tapped twice for the twin turbo setup that the nobles run. I am going to try and find out which oil pan comes on these motors if it is upgraded in any way.

engine_car.jpg

In this pic I am going to try and find out if that flywheel will work with our mtx75, and how much it weighs. The coolants lines should all be the same as well.

engine_front.jpg

In this pic it looks like the timing cover won't cause any problems for us and it also has a DMD crank pulley installed. Also looks like it comes with an svt style oil cooler, but I read somewhere about the oil coolers not working good enough for the nobles. It would also be interesting to see what kind of PCV system this motor has and if the oil cap on that valve cover would clear our hoods as well as that long dip stick.

Anyways I am not close to buying this motor right now but I just wanted to make a thread for discussions about the noble motors and what it would take to install them into our cars. Im guessing someone just needs to tackle the project to answer most of these questions.
 
That engine is built by Turbo Hoses and the long block is at least 10k. I think a fully built, dynod, heavily modified 520 HP version is closer to 20K with turbos, ECU and injectors.
 
From what I could find that is how the motors come from AER, complete longblock for $4400 delivered. Can someone confirm that because it does seem too good to be true.
 
The Noble motors start life as Escape motors; meaning the valve covers, dipstick, and timing cover would be fine.
 
Wow man you need to read my thread again :laugh:

SJon85 said:
I read something about needing an ecu that will run oil squirters, but I know csvt#49 just had them installed and hasn't mentioned anything about that.
Click to expand...

The oil squirters are all mechanical... no ECU required. However if you read through my thread again I did mention that the shop used a 5 axis CNC with a program written to machine the block in the exact spot required, which is critical.

Alright here is the low down on the Noble engines from Noble Forums (same link many have posted)

All info straight from the horses mouth/or as close as I have got with out asking AER directly...

OnyxM400 @ Noble Forums said:
We use a custom forged aluminum piston from Wiseco which results in a compression ratio of about 8.5:1 - Interesting, I thought was 8.0:1, as per Noble literature. The little more compression probably gives a tad better pre-boost power and response. Nice little bonus, since we already got the added protection and durability of forged Wiseco's.

The rods are Scat's 4340 forged H-beam with ARP 2000 bolts. (These are not the Q-Lite version) - ARP 2000 are seriously strong, higher quality then their 8740 bolts. (Opening my engine shows that they switched to SPS aerospace fasteners). There's back and forth debate about H-beam vs I-beam. Regardless, Scat forged rods are bound to be way WAY more than we need at our HP levels.

Yes, they are standard green top, 42 lb Lightning injectors.

In terms of balancing and blueprinting...
Each crank is rebalanced to match the weight of the new forged rods and pistons. Each block is checked for deck height, main bore size, etc. Heads and cranks and inspected as well. Due to small variations in piston size, we measure each and every one in our climate controlled quality dept and then make very closely matched sets of six. After this, each block is honed to match the set of six pistons. We do this in order to maintain very tight control over the piston-to-bore clearance to reduce the possibility of piston slap from the increased clearance requirements of a forged piston.

Other items which are different:
1) The camshafts are a unique profile with increased lift and duration. - turns out to be stock Mondeo ST220 cams
2) The block is specially machined to install piston squirters on each cylinder.
3) The accessory drive setup requires a non-stock front cover.
4) We use a special dual frequency damper for engine smoothness. This is not an underdrive or lightweight type change.
5) Lighter weight 19 lb flywheel - Looks like standard SVT Contour flywheel, which is 2lbs lighter than the non-SVT version
6) The piston squirters and turbos create increased demand for oil. A higher capacity oil pump is in the works...
Click to expand...

Now from my findings...

Wiseco has no custom pistons for the 3L Duratec, nothing even listed for the Noble. There is some random part number that is out there for AER, but they are not sure what it is for.

Scat says they don't have anything on file for the 3L Ford engine, but there custom rod guy says that if I sent a rod in they could make a set $$$.

While the long block AER engine can be had for around $4500-5500 (Whatever) a guy can build an engine to these specs for quite a bit less and have a better engine. My engine build so far...

(note all costs are either right on the money or ball parked on the high side)

2005 Escape engine - $400
K1 rods w/ARP 2000 bolts - $620
Diamond Racing pistons - $686
Diamond Racing rings (custom total seal) - $213.20
All engine work including balancing of rotating assembly - $556.57
Ford OEM girdle bolts - $87.93
ARP head bolts - $225
oil squirters, block machining, and install - $350
Clevite 77 bearings (mains & rods) - $86.24
Stage II BPE Racing port and polish - $450
Manley custom SS valves - $600
ST220 intake - $260
Extrude hone ST220 intake (GB) - $235
Lightning injectors (set of 8) - $308

Total = $5077.94

Now keep in mind this includes the ST220 intake and extrude hone process. I could have just used the OEM intake manifold at no cost, which is the same as what is on the M400 cars. This also includes custom one piece valves and port and polish work on the heads, which again is not included on Noble engines. Removing these items would bring the price down to $3532.94. This price also includes me assembling everything, which saves me some coin. If you do not have the tools or the know how this can be done at any engine shop for around another $600. This is still well below the quoted cost from AER.

Nobles also run a custom ECU with custom programming (completed by Ford). The Noble does not use a MAF system rather a MAP system and have many of the sensors that we have removed from the programming.

If you include the price of the Xcal3 and PRP software/tuning time you'd probably be looking at another $720. However again this would not be included with your AER long block engine.

Then you also have the twin turbos. Haven't priced anything out in that realm, but my NPG Racing kit was around the $3500 mark (which include the std 24# injectors, and the upgraded Garret turbo, and std intercooler). Some of these items I did not use obviously as I have bought replacement parts. Other parts for the control system I have not mentioned either including the HKS mappable boost controller (steal at $450), MSD DIS-4 (thanks to TRicker) as well as a larger intercooler and intercooler spray system (parts which I am still sourcing/building) and a handful of other parts that I have either bought or am custom building.

And if you think my quest for 500whp is crazy... think again... it's been done... just not in this platform :laugh: (some of you have seen this video once before)

 
Mike, look at post #6. And did you ever consider using the noble motor?
 
SJon85 said:
Mike, look at post #6. And did you ever consider using the noble motor?
Click to expand...

Ah I must have skimmed over the thread to fast, good call.

I did, but figured for the price I could build a better engine. I think I have accomplished that, but time will tell.

Also one thing I did not mention is that AER still has not developed a high capacity oil pump. The best thing to do according to others is to port/polish the oil pump.
 
Awesome Mike!! I was about to ask how much your engine build is costing, thats perfect. That just answered about all my questions. I can't wait to see how your plans for traction turn out as well.
 
SJon85 said:
How recent did you email them?
Click to expand...

Yesterday after I saw this thread. I was thinking about talking to them about supplying a higher end motor we could sell through our site for the serious FI guys. Pricing is too high though. As Mike said it would make more sense to build our own.
 
CSVT#49 said:
Total = $5077.94
Click to expand...

You left out a lot of other mandatory items! Don't forget about these performance necessities:

Chrome-plated Canootin Valves
Cryo-treated Vanderwinderbopper Springs
Unobtanium-reinforced Muffler bearings

We can let you off the hook for not mentioning new and improved 100% synthetic headlight fluid and the rich Corinthian Balsa Wood dash since those are aesthetic mods. LOL
 
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