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OK need to ask some comparison here........

BurritaSVT

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
756
Location
houma, LA 70360
I have a delimna like most have heard and I am trying to cut the cost here but not corners either.

I know one journal on the is bad so I can either turn the one journal a little and put an oversized bearing or there is guy who will build it back up to it's original size. For about 150-200

Or I can get a 3 liter crank cheap and rebalance the crank for 225.00 -275.00

or I have a SVT 2.5 liter crank from last motor balanced for pauter rods with pistons but it will tad different to do sine the 3 liter psitons are tad heavier but if he charges less to do it then maybe I can go that way.

And the brings up which crank is better if they are both balanced 2.5 liter SVT or the escape crank?

I will more likely change the oil pump to a mazda 6 for higher oil volume for a better oil flow. I am taking down the motor and sending off the rod and changing all bearing and reassemble the motor again once I figure out the crank issue and plastic guage the peices once again.

I am guessin if I can get the rod for 200.00+200.00(balanced)+ bearings+ oil pump+cradle bolts and head gasket= $700.00 setback

I hoping someone would tell me just use the old svt crank I have the original weight of the old 2.5 pistons if I could take some weight off the 3 liter pisotns to match thm then for my old 2.5 liter crank would swap out direct
 
no I had just a brand new SVT pump less then 20k and stock oil cooler but the more I read about oil 5w is just too light for turbo cars and ones that produce over 500 torque too while turning 7200 rpms in the heat
 
It is not a good idea to use the SVT crank. It will be way off balance wise. You would need to send the recipricating components to a balance shop to even try to get it back into something that is usable.

There is nothing wrong with grinding one journal undersize and using the correct bearing with it, but it is more common to do all of the rod journals or all of the main journals or both. As long as the crank grinder knows what he is doing there is nothing wrong with this.

There is also nothing wrong with welding up the bad journal and then grinding it back to standard as ling as both the welder and the crank grinder know what they are doing. You should not be afraid of a welded crank as long as the people doing the work know what they are doing. Welding up the rod journals and offset grinding them is the most common way of making a stroker crank.
 
well the people who redo the cranks are the same people dowh south who make drag cars or 25k motors so they are very good at what they do. It may ve the cheaper way. Unless i can come up with a extra crank from someone else. I will have it running by Jan at best.
 
no I had just a brand new SVT pump less then 20k and stock oil cooler but the more I read about oil 5w is just too light for turbo cars and ones that produce over 500 torque too while turning 7200 rpms in the heat

Burrita, It's not the "5w" that makes a difference; in simple terms that first number is the oil's "cold weight". What you want is the number after the "w" to be higher (the thickness at operating temp). I think if you did a little light reading on the forums at www.bobistheoilguy.com you would see that your specs are realy similar to a turbo diesel oil. Redline, Liquid Cosworth, Motul, and even Mobil 1 make really good 5w40 oils that would be perfect for you.

On a side note, have you looked into getting your rod and crank journals casidiam coated? It might have saved you some headaches. www.casidiam.com
 
Burrita, It's not the "5w" that makes a difference; in simple terms that first number is the oil's "cold weight". What you want is the number after the "w" to be higher (the thickness at operating temp). I think if you did a little light reading on the forums at www.bobistheoilguy.com you would see that your specs are realy similar to a turbo diesel oil. Redline, Liquid Cosworth, Motul, and even Mobil 1 make really good 5w40 oils that would be perfect for you.

On a side note, have you looked into getting your rod and crank journals casidiam coated? It might have saved you some headaches. www.casidiam.com



It's both that are important. Like I was telling Joey, my owners manual recommends going 5w30 if your ambient temps do not exceed 86*F and to run 10w30 if your temps do exceed them.
the first number is the basic oil weight. I'd feel much more comfortable with a 10w oil in my engine. The second number is important too.


Oh, and you know my recommendation: Get the new 3L crank. WAY too many variables in having different people welding and grinding and resizing bearings, etc just to save $50. Besides, a stock crank is forged, heat treated and polished. You will not have that surface hardening anymore after all that work.
 
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assuming the 3L crank is forged as well, i'd go with that, but i can surely give you the weight of a 2.5L stock piston if you would like. i have a 2.5L crank here with minimal damage to the rod bearing journals, you could have it ground down to the next size easily. i assume you would have major balance issues however, your probably better off buying a good 3L crank.
 
Nah Tricker I have a balanced crank now with same internals off my 2.5 liter but the difference is that the weight of the pistons are heavier than my old diamond 2.5 liter ones. If the crank was usable again and was cheaper to do then I would have used it after he rebalanced it again.
 
There is no reason you can not have the 2.5L crank rebalanced with your current engine components.

exactly.

It's both that are important. Like I was telling Joey, my owners manual recommends going 5w30 if your ambient temps do not exceed 86*F and to run 10w30 if your temps do exceed them.
the first number is the basic oil weight. I'd feel much more comfortable with a 10w oil in my engine. The second number is important too.

The second number is equally important to the first.

AMSOIL WEBSITE FAQ said:
0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic motor oils are ALL 30 weight oils. The answer is that ANY one can be used regardless if your vehicle owners manual says to use, for example, a 5W-30. "W" means winter. In winter weather the 0W oil will flow like a 0W oil, and the 5W will flow like a 5W oil and a 10W will flow like a 10W oil just until the engine warms up.

In order to understand the differences one has to first understand that the numerical values given to these various weight oils are strictly empirical numbers. For example, 0W does not mean that the oil has no weight. That is one of the reasons why we say it is strictly an empirical number. In order to determine the differences between the three oils one has to look at the kinematic viscosity of each lubricant. The kinematic viscosity is essentially the amount of time, in centistokes, that it takes for a specified volume of the lubricant to flow through a fixed diameter orifice at a given temperature.

Let's compare the kinematic viscosity of the three AMSOIL lubricants:
AMSOIL 0W-30 is 57.3 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.3 cST @ 100 deg. C
AMSOIL 5W-30 is 59.5 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 deg. C
AMSOIL 10W-30 is 66.1 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 deg. C.

As you can see from the data above the kinematic viscosities are extremely close. Therefore, whether you use the 0W-30, 5W-30 or the 10W-30 is strictly a matter of choice. With the small differences in kinematic viscosity you would be hard-pressed to detect these differences on initial engine start-up without specialized engine test equipment.

All three oils are excellent motor oils and ANY one can be used in a vehicle which requires either a 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil as well as in several other engine applications including an engine which recommends a 5W- 20 oil.

AMSOIL Series 2000 0W-30 Severe Service motor oil is one of the best synthetic lubricants AMSOIL manufacturers for gasoline engine passenger vehicles and light trucks. The molecular and chemical technology used to develop this oil was derived from AMSOIL's Racing Oil. It is a 35,000 mile/1-year motor oil. This is the same oil used by numerous police vehicles and severe duty fleets nationwide. In fact, many national racing teams use the 0W-30 for the qualifying event, then they change to the AMSOIL 20W-50 Racing Oil for the race. The extra horsepower and friction reduction from the 0W-30 often assists a race driver in attaining a better starting position. In fact, we know exactly which race teams use it, but cannot disclose that information.

This leads to the next topic: many people also ask us if the 0W-30 is too thin a viscosity oil for high ambient temperature operation. The answer is absolutely not! Thicker viscosity oils are not always necessarily better since in addition to its' various engine lubrication functions, an oil must also effectively transfer heat. Only about 60% of an engines cooling is performed by the engine coolant, and only on the upper half of the engine. The remaining 40% of an engines cooling is performed mainly by the engine oil.

Although a vehicle that is recommended to use a 30 weight oil can also use a 40 weight oil, it is usually not needed. You will gain absolutely no benefit from using a thicker viscosity oil if it is not needed. The only time we recommend a 40 weight oil, such as AMSOIL's 10W-40, to a customer in a passenger car or light truck application is if the vehicle's engine is excessively worn and consumes oil at a higher than normal rate or if the vehicle is being used for very severe duty, high load, high temperature applications.
 
exactly.



The second number is equally important to the first.


Thanks for prosting that, it helps illustrate my point

The first number determines the base weight of the oil is important is all I said, and the second number is equally important.

Look at that 11.7 cS at 100*, at operating temperature this is what is important. The thinner the oil at operating temperature then more likely you can have a metal to metal incident in the bearings especially under severe duty.
I could almost guarantee that all oils are not equal despite the numbers and their RACE oils are even more different despite the number rating.

Now on to a second point. If the engine lubrication system is capable of pumping oil through when it is cool such as the 67 centistokes rating implies, then it can surely handle a thicker multigrade oil that runs a bit thicker than the posted 11.7cS at operating temperature.
Think about it, that little 0.3cS might be enough of a difference to extend the life of your motor if you are running higher temps all the time.

Yes there are other factors that can protect the engine based on additives and such. But the simple fact is thicker oils may add friction but they protect better. Oil guys spend all this time researching ways to make a thinner oil protect like a thicker oil and minimize friction. So I think a thicker multigrade is just better protection and NOT a sin to use!
Just because ford can save some fraction of a MPG for their Corporate Average Fuel Economy by changing to a thinner oil helps them save money doesn't mean it is the best choice for your car.
I don't think that ~.2 mpg increase of the ~.5 HP increase you might get from the thinner oil is worth a couple of % reduction in engine protection. Not to me.

Now all of this is just discussion, just academic. Look at the real world evidence. What were the oil weights and brand people have been running when they burned a bearing? What are the weights/brands of oils that people who have not burned a bearing have been running and on top of that what were the driving habbits.
I can only speak for myself but I've never run less than a 10w30 in my contour and most of the time ran a 10w40 and a 20w50.
None of my stock bearings ever had an issue and even my first boosted 3L with stock bearings that I reused looked beautifull two years later.
No spun bearings in my 9+years of multiple contour ownership.

So I don't want to fight with anyone but there is my opinion (key word is opinion) based on the facts I know. Take it or leave it.
 
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Besides, a stock crank is forged, heat treated and polished. You will not have that surface hardening anymore after all that work.
The depth of the hardening is a bit greater than the amount that you would undersize the journals. In fact the crank is designed to be able to take a 0.250mm undersize on crank/pin journals without issue. The risk of grinding deeper than 0.250mm undersize is that you eliminate the critical rolled radius on each side of the journals.
 
I will more likely change the oil pump to a mazda 6 for higher oil volume for a better oil flow.

I hoping someone would tell me just use the old svt crank I have the original weight of the old 2.5 pistons if I could take some weight off the 3 liter pisotns to match thm then for my old 2.5 liter crank would swap out direct
I wouldn't worry about the pump. I looked at the specs a while back and recall them being pretty close. As I recall, the Mazda6 is tuned to activate the VCT a little earlier rpm than other vehicles that use VCT. Therefore, it needed just a pinch more pressure.

Little to no chance on being able to take enought weight off of a 3.0L piston to match a 2.5L piston. They don't leave much extra.
 
The depth of the hardening is a bit greater than the amount that you would undersize the journals. In fact the crank is designed to be able to take a 0.250mm undersize on crank/pin journals without issue. The risk of grinding deeper than 0.250mm undersize is that you eliminate the critical rolled radius on each side of the journals.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.
 
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