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00SVT/04 Full 3L Stalling/Misfire issues

9

99Mystique ATX

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
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Penfield, NY
Ok, so at this point i'm running out of ideas on what to try...

My SVT has developed a couple strange issues that I have been unable to sort out. Here is my setup:

Full 04 Sable Engine (Complete intake to oil pan)
EGR still in place
01 Taurus fuel rail modified to fit
COP Conversion
SCT Livewire with custom tune (Could be an issue in tune?)
MSDS Headers/Opt y-pipe/Borla catback
Open K&N/MAF Adaptor (Will setup a CAI once its all up and running right)

Issue one is once it gets hot, it likes to stall. If it is cold it seems perfectly fine, runs and drives with no issues. I have tried swapping out parts and no luck yet. When it does stall it does so when you let off the throttle. If you hit the throttle or hold it open the car will stay alive and after a few ‘blips’ of the throttle it will come back alive and act normal for a little while. Strange right?

Issue two is the misfire. It seems to idle fine and pull with no issues but at steady-state throttle it has a misfire above 2k RPM. It is intermittent and seems to get worse as the car gets hot. I do have another set of COP’s and can try another set of plugs as well though.

Any thoughts on either issue is greatly appreciated!
 
Probably the COP's

svttour's 3L did similar stuff, he changed back to coilpack, fixed it wise choice IMO
 
Is the CEL on? If so what are the DTC's? And when you say open MAF, what does that mean? The stock MAF has a screen in front that slightly slows the air down so it can read the air better, which if that is gone maybe the MAF isn't reading the air quite right and when it is warm it isn't supplying enough fuel to the cylinders...Just a couple thoughts.
 
people with no car wiring experience should not be trying to do a COP conversion. no disrespect...... but change it back to coil pack, or have someone that knows what they are doing build you a harness that will plug in
 
Brokendown said:
Is the CEL on? If so what are the DTC's? And when you say open MAF, what does that mean? The stock MAF has a screen in front that slightly slows the air down so it can read the air better, which if that is gone maybe the MAF isn't reading the air quite right and when it is warm it isn't supplying enough fuel to the cylinders...Just a couple thoughts.
Click to expand...

It does throw a CEL for running rich, bank 1 + bank 2 and codes are IIRC P1132 and P1152. It's not an open MAF really, it's got a KKM MAF adaptor and a K&N RU-3530 filter on it. I'm thinking that the misfire is causing the CEL though as it only throws the code at steady throttle at ~60mph...

I have another set of COP's I can try so that'll probably be my next step. If that doesn't get me anywhere i'll probably try running a coil and wires to see if that helps the issue. I really don't want to leave it on a coil if that solves the issue as I have yet to see a decent way of mounting the coil pack.
 
TRicker said:
people with no car wiring experience should not be trying to do a COP conversion. no disrespect...... but change it back to coil pack, or have someone that knows what they are doing build you a harness that will plug in
Click to expand...

well its not like he put the wires together with duct tape, the way he built his harness, it does plug in to the stock plug, no splicing the stock wiring or anything... and idk were you are getting the no car wiring experience from but from what i know of him he has more experience then majorty people.. and he did not just throw this together in less then an hour, i know for a fact he put ALOT of time in resurch in to his harness, and alot more time putting it together the right way not hacked up...
 
I don't think the problem is with the COP. Going back and reading he said it dies when you snap the throttle shut and he is running rich codes. If he has too much fuel in there when the engine gets cut off from air, its going to die. If you open up the throttle and give the car some air and it stays alive, then it shouldn't have anything to do with COP.

Granted, you guys have been around these cars longer than I have and if this is a common issue, then I am wrong. The thing that gets me though is he said when its cold its fine. If it was a misfire from the COP, chances are it would happen all the time and it would stall all the time. Plus, the car runs lean to heat up when its cold, and when it gets warm it will run a more stoichiometric A/F ratio, therefor could be running more rich and causing the car to die.

My advice is clean your MAF, it costs no money and it won't hurt to try. The K&N oil probably got it dirty. When searching the two codes, most people said they put an intake on with a K&N filter and it came on so its not too suprising to me.

You could have a leaky injector in your front bank. This can cause the misfire and the stall if it is bad enough.

I would also check your O2 sensors because if it is reading wrong and telling your engine its running rich (P1132), and then the engine will try to lean it out (P1152). This can cause your engine to run like crap.
 
I guess I should clarify a bit more with the issue...

When cruising at steady throttle, it will pull a 1.25 short term fuel trim for both banks. It only seems to do this when there is a misfire which is what I believe is forcing it to throw the codes. If I drive it around town or at slower speeds the STFT is where you'd expect it to be, ranging from ~.95 - 1.05.

I actually haven't tried cleaning the MAF but it was tuned as it sits. However, that could be part of the issue. I'll give it a shot when I get back from vacation.

As for the injector, its definitely a possibility and was going to be next on my list following swapping the COP's and possibly the 02's.

I will add that when it does stall (or try to) with a wideband on it it will read lean to the point where it seems like it cut fuel completely. This is what leads me to believe that maybe there is an issue with the tune. But i'm not sure, that's why i'm looking to see if anyone else maybe had a similar issue.
 
check fuel pressure. This would cause a missfire. It could be bleeding back through the pump. This happend to my car once before
 
99Mystique ATX said:
I guess I should clarify a bit more with the issue...

When cruising at steady throttle, it will pull a 1.25 short term fuel trim for both banks. It only seems to do this when there is a misfire which is what I believe is forcing it to throw the codes. If I drive it around town or at slower speeds the STFT is where you'd expect it to be, ranging from ~.95 - 1.05.

I actually haven't tried cleaning the MAF but it was tuned as it sits. However, that could be part of the issue. I'll give it a shot when I get back from vacation.

As for the injector, its definitely a possibility and was going to be next on my list following swapping the COP's and possibly the 02's.

I will add that when it does stall (or try to) with a wideband on it it will read lean to the point where it seems like it cut fuel completely. This is what leads me to believe that maybe there is an issue with the tune. But i'm not sure, that's why i'm looking to see if anyone else maybe had a similar issue.
Click to expand...

COP...it works then it works. Now weather the wires are bad..thats up to you to test.

The car stalling has been an known issue with full 3L swaps years ago. Ask svtsnob. His car still had the problem for years.It's an issue with the MAF IIRC. The tune had to be adjusted. Install a screen like BROKEN said. And then see if you can get your tune adjusted. Because IIRC a readjustment with the tune corrected this issue!

Measuring fuel under acceleration and at idle is important. Data logging could play an important role also. Which you stated it goes lean near idle. So that tells me it's a tuning issue.

If you scared about injectors...swap 1 injector with a cylinder injector that shows its running fine. Then see if an issue is still there.:shrug:
 
Harrry said:
The car stalling has been an known issue with full 3L swaps years ago. Ask svtsnob. His car still had the problem for years.It's an issue with the MAF IIRC. The tune had to be adjusted. Install a screen like BROKEN said. And then see if you can get your tune adjusted. Because IIRC a readjustment with the tune corrected this issue!
Click to expand...

Interesting... I may have to try reinstalling the screen... Maybe i'll pm svtsnob to get details on how his issue was resolved...

FWIW, I did replace the fuel filter, swap out the fuel pump and replace the fuel pressure sensor on the rail as well... Datalogging the fuel pressure proves nothing out of the ordinary, ~40psi at idle and light acceleration and 50-60psi at WOT or heavy tip-in...
 
Surprised nobody has suggested a vac leak. Seems a lot of stalling at idle or off throttle issues have been vac leak releated. It would also explain the lean condition as well as misfire at steady state.

Also, I believe vehicles run rich at start up, not lean. Someone confirm for accuracy sake.
 
SHOgoFast said:
Surprised nobody has suggested a vac leak. Seems a lot of stalling at idle or off throttle issues have been vac leak releated. It would also explain the lean condition as well as misfire at steady state.

Also, I believe vehicles run rich at start up, not lean. Someone confirm for accuracy sake.
Click to expand...

at idle it's around 40-43psi. SO he's okay,

If that was a vacume leak...then that would be one huge vacume leak :crazy:.
But it wouldn't hurt to pressure check all lines with a hand pump to check for leaks.:cool:
 
I will add that when you restart it after stalling, it runs fine for a short while again but the closer to operating temp it is the sooner it wants to stall again.

I'm leaning towards a tuning issue but i'm not sure what it would be in the tune... We dialed in the MAF and the AFR seems to be spot on...
 
New code, P1150... HO2S21 lack of switching, bank 2

I'll be playing with it a bit tonight... I'm going to try returning the vehicle to stock and driving it to see what it does. Obviously it should be codes out the wazoo with no IMRC, 24# injectors, etc but I want to see what it does...

EDIT: With no tune in it threw a P1520 and a P1000 as I would expect (No IMRC and emissions readiness not complete). It does still stall once fully warmed up with no tune in the car though however, it does seem less frequent and does try to save itself when it does want to stall (and usually does save itself)... Any thoughts?
 
Ok, here's an update... On Monday, I wired the stock coil and wires back up and swapped spark plugs with no change in the misfire. I tried another set of coils (COP setup) with 2 sets of plugs and still have a misfire. I swapped another set of injectors (01 Taurus), DPFE, EGR valve and IAC yesterday with no change in stalling or the misfire.

Today, just for entertainment I returned the PCM back to stock and drove the car. It stalled twice just after the PCM was returned to stock but after that hasn't stalled since... This leads me to believe that the stalling issue is definitely in the tune...

I believe the o2's are original on the car with 135k, any chance a slow-switching o2 could cause a misfire?
 
I am having the same problems with my cougar. I rec. did a full 3l swap. I am leaning twards bad o2 sensors and may be need a new coil pack. I was talking to joey at NPG he was saying the o2 sensors should not go above .9V and mine are constly between .82 and .96 volts also with my coil pack. when I tested it was right at the border line of max resistance possible for the cougar.
 
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