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Thinking about Built 3L, Need Info!

Q

qbcsvt

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
3,145
Location
Up North New Jersey
As many of you know my car is down for a while. It has got me thinking of all the shortcuts I've taken to keep my car up and running.

I wanna set things right and Build One or Buy one.

If I went the route of building an Engine:
I was thinking of:

Pistons, Rods, ARP Head Studs, Clevite77 Bearings. Thats all I really know to get.

I also wanted to know if it was possible to get a Noble engine as they are already built and ready to drop in besides a couple small things. I know ive seen these motors handle way more then I am looking for.

Price Difference what would be better?

Either engine I go with I am going to port match for the SVT Intakes to mate on top (they will be bored/max honed).

Any input on this? This will also be the first 3L/engine swap I attempt.

Info is appreciated!

- amyn
 
First of all, if you got a noble engine and bucherd it with porting the heads, im pretty sure everyone on this forum would hunt you down. that engine is designed to handle that power from the factory, and IMO and probably most of the people on this forum would agree messing with the head on that engine would only make you loose power. Next you would have to look into whether or not the engine harness would match up, which, it probably doesnt. Just because it is a 3L ford motor doesnt mean that its the same. Take the gen 1 SHO for instance, its a Vulcan block, but EVERYTHING else is different (Yamaha). All that asside, you manage to get that into the car and working, you would be putting down more power than your transmission could handle add to the fact that this car is FWD, which makes all that power unusible. Then the issue of cooling, iirc the noble motor has twin turbos, have fun trying to squeeze it in, and for that matter cooling it. If you want to build for boost, check out NPG. They have the 8.5:1 low comp forged pistons you need, forged rods, and the bearings. They also have the 3L LIM mod that will make it easy to bolt up to the SVT intake. And if you are going to pushing this mujch power, a quaife would also be a good investment. Its a great idea, and im sure a lot of people would love to see it done, but for the amount of money it would cost it just isnt feasible. :(
 
pwntbywombat said:
First of all, if you got a noble engine and bucherd it with porting the heads, im pretty sure everyone on this forum would hunt you down. that engine is designed to handle that power from the factory, and IMO and probably most of the people on this forum would agree messing with the head on that engine would only make you loose power. Next you would have to look into whether or not the engine harness would match up, which, it probably doesnt. Just because it is a 3L ford motor doesnt mean that its the same. Take the gen 1 SHO for instance, its a Vulcan block, but EVERYTHING else is different (Yamaha). All that asside, you manage to get that into the car and working, you would be putting down more power than your transmission could handle add to the fact that this car is FWD, which makes all that power unusible. Then the issue of cooling, iirc the noble motor has twin turbos, have fun trying to squeeze it in, and for that matter cooling it. If you want to build for boost, check out NPG. They have the 8.5:1 low comp forged pistons you need, forged rods, and the bearings. They also have the 3L LIM mod that will make it easy to bolt up to the SVT intake. And if you are going to pushing this mujch power, a quaife would also be a good investment. Its a great idea, and im sure a lot of people would love to see it done, but for the amount of money it would cost it just isnt feasible. :(
Click to expand...

Ok isnt the Noble engine a 3L Duratec Engine out of the Taurus like every other 3L out there. Besides the fact that it is built to handle much more power. To my understanding it was almost completed by JaredSVT? I remember him having a PRISTINE T-Green. I think he didnt have time to ever finish it, but it did work.

Whether it was port matched for the SVT Upper it will still make a lot more power then I am pursuing. Yes Traction is an issue. But also Yes, I dont really care. This is my favorite car thats why I got it and have invested a good 20-30k on it already and still plan on doing this to it.

More So I would like input on what is needed and what would be a better option. Prices of each option to think about what I am actually going to pursue.

TT in a CSVT is dumb by the way........

As for fastcougars I believe his had some problems. Although its a monster engine I need to make sure everything is perfect from the beginning. As any other problems will keep me away from my hobby. I am willing to spend WHAT EVER IS NEEDED to do this properly. It may take time to do it, but it will be done.

- Amyn
 
You are asking noob questions. Did you even use the SEARCH button before posting?

You need to decide what kind of goal you want from your build.

Horsepower: You can put down around 250hp with a 3l with a non-intercooled turbo from NPG. They have three levels of turbo kits. What level of performance are you looking for? Will the car be a DD? Traction becomes an issue very quickly when you start to add power to this platform.

Driveability: What cams will you use? SVT= more top end, escape= broader torque band. What FD will you use? SVT= 4.06 = faster acceleration/no traction, Zetec=3.86(IIRC)= slower gearing/better traction. Which clutch will you choose? Spec stage 3(bad) Clutchnet(unproven)

Cost: It's easy to quantify the big purchases when you start a build like this. The problem that most run into (including myself) is the small parts involved. They nickel and dime you to death. Fluids, gaskets, special tools, time, nuts, bolts, tune, hoses, stuff that gets broken, blood, sweat, and beers...dudes don't cry afterall :laugh:


If you are building a 3L turbo, your best bet is to start with an 04-05 escape motor. IIRC you don't have to swap timing cover or oil pan like with the taurus motors. They are a little bit more expensive but worth it. Plus with the later engines you have the option of going Coil-on plug. Another positive is that the later ones have updated pistons that are more durable than previous years. If you decide not to replace the rods and pistons one of these motors would be a great start.

Hope this gets you going in the right direction.
 
Sorry its hard to do this on an iPhone when I am working consistently.

But thanks for your concern on calling me a newb. If you were the man I needed help from I would have asked! If you were smart yourself you woulda looked at the Sig to see what is already on the car. You could search to see the car is undergoing a complete life from tires to roof.

I am only worried about the engine as why I made this thread. As the car already has a NPG TURBO KIT UPGRADED/Installed as much as I could with Joey. A tranny built by Aircougar Performance with a Torsen in it.

I will plan on getting either an Escape Motor or a Noble motor.
And trying to find out the best routes and prices as I cannot really get them on my own.

IIRC a noble motor was around 4-5k

Escape motor?
Pistons and Rods would be from NPG


I want to break 400whp on a daily driver, KEYWORD for this whole thread, RELIABLY!

Not an experienced Motor builder and hence the questions!

- amyn
 
Wow, didn't mean to offend you, I can see that you are not new...

Don't waste your time with the noble motor. Pick up an 04-05 escape with low miles, it will probably run you $500-$750. Get pistons and rods and LIM(unless you already have it) from NPG,if you are not comfortable with installing those parts then find a good local engine builder to do it. If you're concerned about drivability, and you should be, then go with the focus final drive, and pick up a clutch from clutchnet. It hasn't shown to have the issues that the spec clutches have, plus I believe there is a group buy going on for it. BTW I would stick with the escape cams, they will help get the car going when you are out of boost.
 
tsSVT said:
Wow, didn't mean to offend you, I can see that you are not new...

Don't waste your time with the noble motor. Pick up an 04-05 escape with low miles, it will probably run you $500-$750. Get pistons and rods and LIM(unless you already have it) from NPG,if you are not comfortable with installing those parts then find a good local engine builder to do it. If you're concerned about drivability, and you should be, then go with the focus final drive, and pick up a clutch from clutchnet. It hasn't shown to have the issues that the spec clutches have, plus I believe there is a group buy going on for it. BTW I would stick with the escape cams, they will help get the car going when you are out of boost.
Click to expand...

Focus final drive... don't they have the same final drive as we do in our cars, 4.06:1?
 
The Zetec FD is hard to find now. Unsure how I am going to get this now... Kinda asked around and several people I talked to were looking for it themselves.

But ya the transmission is another story, right now My car has a torsen'd Tranny. Ill leave it at that until I get to it. Right now Im worrying about paint and thinking about a new Motor. Most likely an Escape as I am unsure how I am going to get a Noble Engine!

- amyn
 
qbcsvt said:
The Zetec FD is hard to find now. Unsure how I am going to get this now... Kinda asked around and several people I talked to were looking for it themselves.

But ya the transmission is another story, right now My car has a torsen'd Tranny. Ill leave it at that until I get to it. Right now Im worrying about paint and thinking about a new Motor. Most likely an Escape as I am unsure how I am going to get a Noble Engine!

- amyn
Click to expand...

LOL, yeah after reading that post on fordcontour it seems that the Zetec FD may be a big PITA. You may be able to buy a motor direct from noble, but that may be hard to accomplish. Honestly, you'll save a lot of money starting with a normal 3l.
 
Not sure if this is true, but from a thread a few years back, someone said you had to provide the VIN from a Noble before they will send an engine. Again, not sure, but it may have been Apex that was asking about it for that monster he built. :shrug:
 
getsum111 said:
Not sure if this is true, but from a thread a few years back, someone said you had to provide the VIN from a Noble before they will send an engine. Again, not sure, but it may have been Apex that was asking about it for that monster he built. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Most likely, that is true. In order to register a noble in the states the body and suspension has to be sold seperately in order for it be classified as a "kit car".
 
JedsContour is the guy with the noble motor. He has not yet installed it into either of his mint T-Greens.

Last time I was able to fine a price on a Noble/Rossion motor it was 4,400.xx.

I don't believe there are any issues with dropping it into an SVT. Sensors are the same. Consider using the 3L intakes if you go that route. I sure as hell wouldn't want to risk buggering up that motor by porting the heads!!!

I have to imagine you can get a very low mileage 05+ 3L block and have all the high performance bits installed to damn-near noble spec for under 4,400. The thing to make very certain is the shop you have do the build knows what they are doing. I would spend 3 times as much time on finding and getting to know the builder than any other aspect of building the motor.
 
SHOgoFast said:
I have to imagine you can get a very low mileage 05+ 3L block and have all the high performance bits installed to damn-near noble spec for under 4,400. The thing to make very certain is the shop you have do the build knows what they are doing. I would spend 3 times as much time on finding and getting to know the builder than any other aspect of building the motor.
Click to expand...

I agree I found my 05 Taurus 3L with 9,000miles (yes 9,000 miles) for $700US :) took about 2 weeks to find but I htink it was worth it.

Aaron
 
Sounds great. I think I am going to go with the 05 Escape! Hopefully I can find the same one as Aarons or better!

I would ove to throw in a Noble engine, looks like I will get flamed by putting on SVT Intakes, althought I think there is nothing wrong with it. I like it cause its aesthetically pleasing as well as it wont really hurt the performance to a point where I will be disappointed.

I want to run 400whp daily and reliably and that is really the reason for all of this. Ive seen stock Noble motors hit 900whp with no problem. So if he had SVT intakes would he loose 500whp? I doubt it. Im sure I will still be happy with the outcome if the Noble heads were ported.

I have to run around the Noble forums and try to get some specs for the build up and learn about building the engine to the same or near spec.

- amyn
 
SVT SNOB said:
I agree I found my 05 Taurus 3L with 9,000miles (yes 9,000 miles) for $700US :) took about 2 weeks to find but I htink it was worth it.

Aaron
Click to expand...

ya i got mine w/ 7000 miles for 250 bucks. no warranty though. they didnt even know they had the engine, i found it on the racks on my way to the "ford section" it was next to a bunch of volvo motors. they didnt know what it was because the valve covers and intakes were melted together (engine fire claim)
 
qbcsvt said:
I want to run 400whp daily and reliably and that is really the reason for all of this. Ive seen stock Noble motors hit 900whp with no problem. So if he had SVT intakes would he loose 500whp? I doubt it. Im sure I will still be happy with the outcome if the Noble heads were ported.
Click to expand...


sorry but that isn't going to happen. you have seen all the issues that you have had to go though already. A highly modified car isn't going to be a reliable dd.

I am very glad I don't dd my car ...
 
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