Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Individual Throttle bodies & turbo

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Individual Throttle bodies & turbo

    I mentioned in one of my first posts that I was going to go ITB on my 3.0L V6 turbocharged engine.

    Firstly let me just say that I am running the 3.0L V6 with the stock plastic intake system (both upper and lower intake manifold) and throttle body which is actually extremely efficient as I am running over 700bhp and 8000rpm from the single turbo setup i developed for my car.

    The reason for going ITB is that I want to go DBW and on my car the engine is on display..... Additionally at the same time I am replacing the Motec M800 ecu I currently run with a new Motec M150, upgrading to even bigger injectors and more powerful coil packs (purely for some extra safety margin).

    Therefore I was making so many changes I decided that I would take the opportunity to design new intake plenum with shorter runners to better suit my high raving engine, at the same time fitting ITB will also be worthwhile as it allows me to run a larger plenum without the downsides in engine performance along with retaining my current awesome throttle response.

    Plus I do love a challenge and designing something new :)

    First off I needed to do some calculations on the runner lengths, I measured existing ones and with my cam timing found that their lengths were optimised for 6000rpm, which makes sense considering the intake is from an auto SUV that revs to 6500rpm.
    I then measure how long mine could be if i made the intakes straight and still fit the plenum under my bodywork.... it raised the optimum to 7200rpm which i decided would be perfect as I will gain from the more efficient airflow and still be well inside my optimum range.
    I then designed the plenum.... now usually people say the plenum should be 1.75-2 times the engines capacity... however that rule of thumb simple does not apply to ITB and actually the very best plenum for ITB is an infinite size one (open to atmosphere). HOWEVER my car is charged, therefore too large a plenum could add lag so whilst my plenum is much larger than a normal throttle body car, its not so large as to add any measurable lag.
    For information my plenum is actually about the same volume as a BMW E36 M3 which is a 3.2L NA straight 6.

    The setup is not finished as I also had to design my own lower inlet manifold, but here are some pics of the WIP.

    Took a lot more time to come up with a workable ITB that fits the engine.


    Once the ITB design was complete I mocked up the plenum in perspex to get a good visual impression of the entire setup.


    When the plenum design was decided on I made a buck in G/F and then made sure it actually fitted in the engine bay and cleared the bodywork.... was a relief when it all fitted lol


    Preped the plenum buck ready for taking moulds, I will make it in carbon.



  • #2
    Very cool. I have been toying with the idea of a plenumed ITB setup on my audi. Did you find any sort of rule of thumb on plenum size for this setup? Im surprised those stock ford COP units are supplying enough spark for 700bhp. Are you running a CDI or ignition booster? Did you scavendge those CF stacks off something? Looks great cant wait to see it complete.
    95 SeVT 3.0L
    Audi A4 From Hell

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by andygtt View Post
      I
      Firstly let me just say that I am running the 3.0L V6 with the stock plastic intake system (both upper and lower intake manifold) and throttle body which is actually extremely efficient as I am running over 700bhp and 8000rpm from the single turbo setup i developed for my car.

      Hey Andy; could I ask you to expand on this please ? , I'm wondering about porting out inlet manifolds and ports on an FI engine.

      When you say the stock manifolds are very efficient, do you mean intake charge flow speed and cylinder filling ?

      lovin' your skillz thanks ...G.


      ST24. LPG, 2001 ST200 motor, 65mm P&P'd TB, 80mm MAF, headers, lowered, sway bars and strut braces, 300/278mm brakes, 3.51 FD 3.0L tranny, Torsen, Fidanza.... Vortech nearly completed.

      WANTED; Custom gauge guru for ST200 overlay job... pm me..

      Comment


      • #4
        The coils are a ford item, i have turned the dwell up on them a little as Im running them at the limit but I think i am the only person doing this and there are a lot of 600bhp engine out there.

        Regarding the ford intake manifolds and throttle body, up to my power the upper and lower intake have not needed changing in any way at all to achieve 700bhp and 600ftlb... in fact i am caping the torque to save the box and could also run that at 700ftlb.... I also have a monster power band and actually make 700bhp for over 1500rpm to 8000rpm redline and over 500ftlb of torque from around 4000rpm.

        The heads DO respond nicely to a mild flow (retain stock valve sizes) and some mild cam reprofiles, as an example my low boost setting of 0.6bar sees just under 500bhp!
        I think this shows how efficient the setup is.

        Im not changing to make more power or because the power band etc needs it, one of my concerns has been doing a backwards step in making the changes hence why I am doing everything I can and going so far with the setup.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow; there is so much of this I don't understand......

          don't understand the dwell adjustments, doesn't that just overheat them and make them less efficient ?

          never seen those power figures at 8-9 psi and there's no added volume to make up for the low pressure... is the motor 3.5L or something ?

          I've seen advice to increase the exhaust valves on FI motors, you've managed without that ??

          what characteristics are you grinding the cam. profiles to ? less overlap ?

          look forward to seeing how the ITBs turn out .....G.
          ST24. LPG, 2001 ST200 motor, 65mm P&P'd TB, 80mm MAF, headers, lowered, sway bars and strut braces, 300/278mm brakes, 3.51 FD 3.0L tranny, Torsen, Fidanza.... Vortech nearly completed.

          WANTED; Custom gauge guru for ST200 overlay job... pm me..

          Comment


          • #6
            We only tweaked the coils a little (royal we, it was done by my mapper and not exactly sure what he did), they have not overheated in 3 years... YET.... But its this concern and lack of safety margin thats meant i am fitting upgraded ones, same is true of the injectors I run, Ive pretty much max'd them.

            Engine is 3.0L... I have some specially spec'd cosworth pistons and upgraded rods (same length as an NA engine) and oil squirters for the underside of the pistons, otherwise its a stock bottom end (crank is 100% stock).

            Cams are a mountune grind done by piper in UK.... they are pretty mild and they keep the spec secret, heads are mildly flowed, valves are stock size and are completely stock on a lot of the 600bhp boys... i have ones made of upgraded material as the egt were higher than stock materials could take safely and i had failures.

            You don't know me from adam so I will completely understand if you have doubts about my engine power claims... after all i could be a keyboard warrior... What I will say is that the car does 0-150mph in 9 seconds on high boost 1.4bar... take a look at the below video clip of the car at silverstone (I extracted the Motec ecu telemetry and overplayed it onto go pro footage).
            I have spend the beth part of 7 years slowly building the engine to this state.

            The exhaust and turbo is a big factor in making power IMO, I run a large single BW turbo with 3.5inches exhaust after it.... pass all the track noise limits IF i run my external wastage silencer :)

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-23Wdq4etU






            Comment


            • #7
              What size BW turbo are you running? Torque curve looks really good for a large frame turbo.
              95 SeVT 3.0L
              Audi A4 From Hell

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by andygtt View Post
                You don't know me from adam so I will completely understand if you have doubts about my engine power claims... after all i could be a keyboard warrior.
                Andy; I in no way intended to insult you or cast any doubt over your honesty. On reflection, I should have phrased my questions more politely, especially since I was asking you to take time to answer in such full detail as you have.

                I must say though, getting 500bhp out of 9 psi will have more than a few guys salivating at the prospect lol

                really appreciate your time ... G.
                ST24. LPG, 2001 ST200 motor, 65mm P&P'd TB, 80mm MAF, headers, lowered, sway bars and strut braces, 300/278mm brakes, 3.51 FD 3.0L tranny, Torsen, Fidanza.... Vortech nearly completed.

                WANTED; Custom gauge guru for ST200 overlay job... pm me..

                Comment


                • #9
                  I didn't read it as you being impolite at all, it just i have been around forums a lot and often see keyboard warriors turn up and make wild claims etc so would completely understand some scepticism.

                  I must say its actually making just under 500bhp on low boost although unfortunately we didn't print or retain the dyno graphs... Im going to put it on a hub dyno soon as it is to get a low boost run on the current spec so I can accurately compare the change to ITB and M150 to see if it makes any gains etc.
                  The hub dyno i use now never estimate flywheel bhp.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2000ZxT View Post
                    What size BW turbo are you running? Torque curve looks really good for a large frame turbo.
                    the turbo is massive, it similar in size to a Gt40-45.... here is it next to one of the T28 turbos I used to run to get 600bhp.



                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X