update on my tour.

[skunk]

I got her towed to the dealer on tuesday. The tech came out and listen to the motor to confirm my suspision about the chain rubbing the cover. They just called me late this afternoon, they pulled the front cover of the motor and found that the timing chain tensioner had failed allowing the chain to slacken and come in contact with the cover. The chain was damaged but the cover was fine, most of the noise he said was all the slack in the chain causing it to slap around inside the cover. no damage to the cam gears and funny it never jumped time.

So in a nut shell new tensioner, chain and guides, plus all the assorted gaskets, price to come:eek: . He told me he would get the price for me in the a.m.. I just want the damn thing fixed.

only has just a tick over 49,000 miles, doing about 2,000 miles a year since I stopped using has a daily driver, synthetic oil and babied doesn't guarantee you anything...It just luck of the draw.

[Buddy Palumbo]

Glad to hear it's figured out already ... and seems to be quasi-easily fixable :cool: .

[rouar]

Doesn't sound all that bad, though this is coming from a person who regularly gets raped for $1200+ at dealerships.

[todras]

A rare part failure for sure. Labor is going to be the killer here.

[skunk]

The dealer called me today and asked if I could stop buy to take a look at the car since they wanted to change the other chain, tensioner set up has well since the cover was off and easily done, they noticed that the unaffected chain has streched a little but they wanted me to take a look first to give them the okay.

I stopped buy and they showed me what was up. after he installed the new chain set up he noticed how much more the unaffected side had streched nad wanted me to see it, he sudjested changing the other side has well since everything was open and that everything will be equal and new, I agreed so the are going to order another set up and hopefully get the car done late friday or early saturday. I'm sure I'm looking at over $1,000.

I'll update soon.

[JSmith]

Thats a wise choice to replace both sides. Both sides have been running the same ammount of time and there is that possibility that a failure on the other side may be possible. Nip it in the butt now while its all apart and put in all new parts and have no worries. Although it was a terrible thing to happen having the snese to shut off the engine quickly when you noticed something was different is probably the reason for the lack of damage.

[todras]

It's not stretched! You can't stretch a metal chain! Come on. Their was no oil pressure going to the tensioner since the engine was off and no oil pressure. Idiot mechanics.

[ElKy]

true you cant stretch it technically...
but it does wear and gives the illusion of being stretched.

[Cobra]

Actually, metal chain can stretch (elongate). All metals have a point of plastic deformation, and once they reach that point, they don't retract back to their natural state. There are usually 2 scenarios for chains to become stretched. Load beyond what it was designed for and fatigue. Ask any engine builder. Hell, my 390 has so much slack in the timing chain that it is obviously stretched, and there are no tensioners in old timing chain V8's.

Anyway, skunk's situations is probably, both that the tensioners were not pressurized, and the chain was stretched due to the new load applied to it since the other chain crapped out.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://mattsauto.com/images/tchain1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mattsauto.com/tchain1.htm&h=286&w=336&sz=29&hl=en&start=11&tbnid=3WWDOcTJYPT5QM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstretched%2Btiming%2Bchain%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[Cobra]

I should elaborate. Its the holes in each link that stretch, not so much the link itself. Its still plastic deformation. Its basic strength of materials.

[JSmith]

I should elaborate. Its the holes in each link that stretch, not so much the link itself. Its still plastic deformation. Its basic strength of materials.

The technician probably described the condition of the chain as stretched becasue if they talked about plastic deformation most people would just stand there with a dumb look on their face.

[skunk]

I got a call at 4:30 from the dealer saying the car was done. They road tested the car and performed the other services I requested which was an oil change with mobil 1( I wanted fresh oil and drain out any metal, that is if there was any in the pan) I had them replace the serpintine belt since they had to take it off anyway and new spark plugs.

I also wanted to note (since I forgot to post it yesterday) that when I went to the dealer to see the car they had what looked like moving blankets or something along those lines over each fender and the front end to protect from scraches, i was impressed by that move. They did say the the car was really clean and must have assumed by the condition of the car that I was going to be a picky customer.

The first thing I did before paying for it was look it over and I'm again impressed..looks like it was never touched right down to the little plastic holders for the electical connecters and the plastic holders that hold down the harnesses, they did an awsome job. No leaks that I noticed and the drive home was without incident, the motor felt tighter or maybe I'm just imagining it, but it felt different.

The total for the two chains, tensioners, guides, gaskets, mobil oil, belt, plugs and filter came up to $1322 total alot of it over $700 of it was labor.It's alot of money but I didn't think it was that bad for all the work they did and the care he used putting it together.


also to add to the other comments the one tensioner, has he put it failed to pump up, causing the main failure. The chain streches at the pins(hinge area) and the holes for the pins become elongated causing the strech or slack in the chain. same thing happens to my metal chain on my motorcycle, the plates don't strech but the holes for the pins do,also the teeth on the gears wear down and become more pointed and this will also cause slack in the chain which follows along the lines of what cobra stated.


Well that's it for now, disaster over, she's back home. I'll take her for some more drives to seat everything and make sure idon't get any leaks before putting her away for the winter.

[BrApple]

well that doesn't sound to back concidering the good work that they did and that it only took a few days, good to hear that it is all set and back on the road :laugh:

[Buddy Palumbo]

Glad to hear it's back to top-notch :cool: .

[99SE]

did they have to pull the engine? I think I have the same problem. Just 66k miles on it now. I hope I haven't damaged the engine from driving it to long like that. I've put about 8k miles on it since I originaly heard it. Maybe more. I couldn't figure it out and I thought I would find out what it was once it breaks. Now I hear another noise. I'm a little scared to be honest. I would gladly pay $1300 bucks if it was certain that my motor would be fixed and wouldn't blow up 10k miles from now. How is your car now?

[BrApple]

good question, I think that my front cover is leaking oil and want to know if I can get the front cover off while the motor is in the car ...

[ElKy]

you should be able to take the front cover off with the motor in the car.
i havent done it on a contour, but i think it would be possible.

[ElKy]

and now that i think about it...no way would they have pulled the motor and replaced all that for only $1300!

so they had to have pulled the front cover only

[99SE]

The more I look at it the more work I see. It looks like you have to take off the upper intake to get the valve covers off to get the timing chain cover off. But first you gotta get the pulleys off. That would take me like 2 weeks. Theres just no room to work.

[skunk]

No they did not pull the motor. they did it in the car. when I went to see it I was amazed how the tech got all the crap off, but there is alot of room after the cover is off. Remember it came to $1300 but that also included new spark plugs and mobil1 oil change.

I would also do both chains, giudes and tensioners, not just one side. The car runs great, no leaks. all went well but that also will depend on the dealer and tech. Not something I would do in my garage but thats just me.

[99SE]

Did he have the intake and valve covers off?

[ElKy]

you will have to take the intake and valve covers off.
you cant get the cam gears off otherwise

[BrApple]

hmmm, looks like I should be changing the front cover gasket then as I will be changing the valve covers ....

[skunk]

Yes, you have to take off the upper intake, valve covers, front motor mount,belt, ps pulley, crank shaft pulley, unbolt the alt and move it to the side same with a/c comp. unbolt and move the ps pump, remove the idler pully and tensioner, move assorted wires and other minor stuff to get the front cover off, release the chain tension, pull the chains, guides, and tensioners, reset the timing marks on the crank and cam sprockets. reinstall. be very carefull with all small parts since the very front of the oil pan is open, if you drop something in there you will have to pull the oil pan. must use new crank seal which fits into the front cover, also you must use rtv at certian points on the cover or it will leak (ford as a digram for this) along with a new front cover gasket, new valve cover gasket plus new o-rings for the spark plug tubes, etc, etc.

That's the basic run down, again easier explained than done. After looking at it when it was apart and noting some of the things I observed I would not do this on my own, just imagine having the timing marks off and having to rip apart again to reset the marks( plus making sure your on the intake side not exhaust). The front cover can me tricky to reseal, again if you donot use rtv in the right spots it will leak. It's not impossible t o do yourself but it looks like a pain in the ass.

I also just wanted to get it done right and if it leaked or had problems afterwards the dealership would own it and they would have to correct it not me, but sofar so good.

[99SE]

Thanks for the help. My engine sounds worse everyday. I'm thinking that I let the timing chain problem go too long. Now I have a loud thumping on top of the engine. Its like a knock but it goes away when you give it gas. It sounds really bad when Idling though.