Warmonger brake info/install thread

[KingpinSVT]

Please post issues advice here pertaining to the new warmonger brake kit. Here is what I have so far:


One thing I noticed on some of the bolt studs is that they are a bit thicker on the shank/head. When I test fitted the stud in the hub and then tried to install the bracket there was a bit of interference on the UPPER stud ONLY. This is easily solved by first installing the studs and brackets, then grinding the backside of the upper bolt stud so that the caliper mounting bracket clears when it is finally bolted in place.

If anyone has any specific issues pm me. Otherwise if you have any problems that you solve yourself with a simple solution then just post what it was and how you solved it.


I began mock up of one of the front brackets today. There is definitely interference with the upper stud and the caliper bracket (on mine at least). The stud head sticks out a visible amount past the mounting edge of the spacer. This is the only issue I have not yet addressed, as its time for some Gator football. Everthing else looks good, Im just going to break out the angle grinder tomorrow and knock a bit off the head of the stud until there is clearance.

The only other issue I ran into was intermittant rubbing of the caliper bracket and the rotor. I have cleaned up the inside of the caliper bracket, so that should no longer be an issue plus I still have to fix the stud issue before I can say the rotor is finished. With the caliper bracket alignment moving this way or that (because of the stud), I cant say its fixed one way or another anyway. I didnt remember what you posted about the stud until I was about to finish up for the day anyway.

However, so far so good. No surprises, you seem to have covered any possible issues pretty well ahead of time so I knew what to look for.

I have not yet started on the rear, so I have no advice to offer there yet.

This is somewhat in order of how you will encounter them:

First, my workspace:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade009Medium.jpg

Here is where I made room for the upper spacer on the spindle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade006Medium.jpg

I also flatspotted the spacer a bit so that too much material wouldnt be removed from either the spindle or the spacer, just a little from both.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade004Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade005Medium.jpg


I then ran into problems with the caliper bracket hitting the upper stud (I have already hit it with the grinder in this pic).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade007Medium.jpg

Here you can see after being ground down it allows the caliper bracket to sit flush on the spacers without touching the stud. It doesnt look like it, but with backlighting there is a gap (although tiny) between the stud head and the caliper bracket.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade002Medium.jpg

I then ran into some problems with the rotor touching the inside of the caliper bracket. I removed the casting ridges as well as a bit more material for clearance. It doesnt take much. Also, as War has said, the spacers have a bit of play so you can wiggle the caliper bracket out a bit to create additional clearance.

Here is a pic after I cleaned up the inside.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade001Medium.jpg

You can see the touched up areas here.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade003Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/kingpinsvt/warmongerbrakeupgrade008Medium.jpg

When you look at yours, all the inside edges were round and as you can see mine are now squared off. In my case, this made the difference.


Hope that clears things up a bit.


EDIT: I finished the fronts. FWIW, my passenger side caliper bracket didnt have any interference problems with the rotor. I still cleaned it up, but I did not remove much material at all. So you may or may not run into the problem. Im thinking not catching the stud interference on the caliper bracket probably had something to do with it, because I addressed that first (ground it down) before mounting everything else up.

Now on to the rears!



Please, for your safety, wear a mask while grinding, especially on your new rear rotors if they are used. Even if they are new, its still not good to breath in all those metal filings. If they are used rotors, you will have tons of brake dust and rust buildup that flies everywhere when you are grinding the rotors and brackets (I dont think it would concern these vehicles, but your brake dust could potentially contain asbestos [sp?]). I wore a mask most of the time (always when cutting through rust and dust buildup), and judging by my boogers I still got a hefty load of nasty dust. If I get lung cancer, Im blaming it on this.

[Kremithefrog]

I didn't need a mask for the front but I am just using a dremel. Of course be careful which way your holding and grinding things, you don't want a spark in your eye. Latex gloves might be a good idea.:crazy:

So... is the rotor supposed to look like this after braking? Like the top half has worn the new rotor more than the bottom half. Crappy nightime cell phone pic:

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/149/1008062157fh3.jpg

[KingpinSVT]

I wore goggles, gloves, and a mask. Ive got interviews and such during the week, I cant have nasty fingernails! Even with the sparks going one way or another, the dust goes everywhere. The fronts werent too bad, youll see once you get to the rear and really have to cut through some crap.

As for your bedding issues, Im not sure. I cannot remember from the last time I changed my brakes. My guess is that its probably not normal, but Im not sure :shrug: . I would suggest going to the old forums and seeing if you can find somone with the same problem.

Did you re-grease your caliper pins and the like so that everything is sliding freely?

[warmonger]

I didn't need a mask for the front but I am just using a dremel. Of course be careful which way your holding and grinding things, you don't want a spark in your eye. Latex gloves might be a good idea.:crazy:

So... is the rotor supposed to look like this after braking? Like the top half has worn the new rotor more than the bottom half. Crappy nightime cell phone pic:


It may be that something isn't aligned right on your brakes.
Are BOTH sides like that?
Did you grind enough off the back of that top stud? The brake bracketry will flex a bit and if it interferes with anything it will not have even pad wear.

There should have been more than enough adjustment room to clear the caliper body from the intermediate bracket.
You will need to take more pictures and email them to me so I can examine what is going on.

[Kremithefrog]

Both sides are like that. I'll look at it more after work.

[BlackE1]

I think that the rear brakes will look like that due to the larger rotors. While the pad size did not increase. The reason that your rear braking will be increased even with the same size pads is the the force the pad apply to the rotor is futher out on the rotor making a larger moment.

[RandyCSVT]

I am going to be taking a weekend off to do this, but I want to make sure I have the right power tool. I want to do this with as few tools as possible. I thought about buying another dremel ( I gave mine to my dad), but not if it will take me forever. I think a good drill, 1/2 inch bit, drum sander bit, and grinding bit will do it all. Anybody have any good Drill recommendations? I bought a cordless drill before but it wasn't strong enough and died on me when I tried to cut through any metal. I can shop at sears, lowes, and homedepot. Good bit recommendations would be appreciated too.

I know warmonger recommended a few different tools, but I can only afford one multipurpose tool at the moment.

[Kremithefrog]

I think that the rear brakes will look like that due to the larger rotors. While the pad size did not increase. The reason that your rear braking will be increased even with the same size pads is the the force the pad apply to the rotor is futher out on the rotor making a larger moment.
That's the front. And yes there will be some area left untouched by the pad, but (I know the pic sucks) that's not what it is. The swept area top half looks like it's getting more pressure than bottom half. I'm about to go look at it.

Randy, I used an old drill and just the cheapest bit I saw at lowes (which was still around $10). Just keep it spinning fast and go very slowly.

[BlackE1]

oh i am sorry i must have missed where it said front.

[KingpinSVT]

I think if you were limited to one tool I would get a dremel. Can reach in tighter spots than a drill, plus you have more overall versatility. I think a high speed rotory tool will serve you much better in doing some of the grinding, such as the rear rotors.

You dont have a drill already?

[warmonger]

I am going to be taking a weekend off to do this, but I want to make sure I have the right power tool. I want to do this with as few tools as possible. I thought about buying another dremel ( I gave mine to my dad), but not if it will take me forever. I think a good drill, 1/2 inch bit, drum sander bit, and grinding bit will do it all. Anybody have any good Drill recommendations? I bought a cordless drill before but it wasn't strong enough and died on me when I tried to cut through any metal. I can shop at sears, lowes, and homedepot. Good bit recommendations would be appreciated too.

I know warmonger recommended a few different tools, but I can only afford one multipurpose tool at the moment.

The new bolt studs are designed NOT to need to drill the mounting ears out to 1/2". Just use a round rat-tail file to enlarge the hole a little bit as necessary to put the studs in.

I've had my Makita Corded drill for 11 years now and it still works great thought the chuck is a tad worn.

[RandyCSVT]

I think if you were limited to one tool I would get a dremel. Can reach in tighter spots than a drill, plus you have more overall versatility. I think a high speed rotory tool will serve you much better in doing some of the grinding, such as the rear rotors.

You dont have a drill already?


I moved from RI to FL a little over a year ago, and I left most of my tools with my dad. I had a dremel with every bit imaginable. I forgot it at home, and when I went back to RI for christmas he was already attached to it. It would have been like taking candy from a baby.

[Kremithefrog]

The new bolt studs are designed NOT to need to drill the mounting ears out to 1/2". Just use a round rat-tail file to enlarge the hole a little bit as necessary to put the studs in.
Umm, is this gonna cause my brakes to fall off? I looked through the GB thread before installing them and thought I downloaded the last instructions posted and they said to drill, so I drilled.

And I think it was the back of the top stud causing that problem. I'll know for sure when I finish tomorrow.


And do not use just a dremel. It takes forever and is aggravating.

[RandyCSVT]

does anybody have the latest version of the directions. The ones I have also say to drill a 1/2 inch hole. I want to make sure I know all the right steps before I even attempt this.

[KingpinSVT]

I also already drilled. I did not see any update saying not to. I still had to pull the upper stud through most of the way through the ridged area, but the lower stud went further through. I still had to pull it through a little, but not that much.

I hope this wont cause problems. . . .

[Kremithefrog]

My top stud on the passenger side actually was turning (I don't have a suitable torque wrench to check torque, but I know how tight things can be, and I'm keeping it within a wheel studs limits) when being completely tightened. I think I'll try to get some vice grips (on the now, very grounded down stud head) and tighten it just a bit more. I think as long as the nuts are tight, there shouldn't be a problem.

[warmonger]

Don't worry all. The knurling on the stud is supposed to make it tight so it does not turn while tightening, thats it. If you can still torque it down then you will be fine.

If you precisely drilled the hole with the 1/2" bit the stud would still lock in. THe trouble is that many times the drill bit will wobble on a hand drill and the hole ends up bigger. In that case it may leave the stud a bit loose.

If you can't actually torque the stud down you can try a number of things. THe simplest is to take a piece of aluminum foil about 1/2" wide andwrap it around the studs shoulder, pull tight and flatten it to the stud with your fingers. Then press the stud in like normal. It should hold pretty good.

Last resort, I have SAE hardened nuts from when I was using the 1/2" studs so we can still swap in a 1/2" bolt stud.


**Kremit**
If you did not make enough clearance for the top spacer either on the hub mounting ear and/or flat spotting the spacer, you may be causing the caliper to position at an angle on the rotor.

The first thing you must do on your setup is disassemble one side and look at the inside of the rotor to see if you have a band lower down on the caliper, or further in radially. IF that is the case then you are tilted a bit and you must go back in and find out where the interference is.
Also you never sent me any pictures. You need to address these issues quickly so you don't wear the pad abnormally.

[KingpinSVT]

I kinda figured if it pulled through and held than I figured it would be OK, just wanted some reassurance.

On another note, I just want to double check some things. First, when the caliper brackets are mounted during the rotor test fit, if everything is snugged down and nothing touches, it wont be an issue later right? Some of my clearances are small, but they are there. Its more an issue on the rear.

Second involves the rear rotors. How much sag is necessary? The bottom of my rotors kick out when I let them go, but not that far. It seems the hub diameter in the middle is really the limiting factor. Should I worry about that?

[warmonger]

I kinda figured if it pulled through and held than I figured it would be OK, just wanted some reassurance.

On another note, I just want to double check some things. First, when the caliper brackets are mounted during the rotor test fit, if everything is snugged down and nothing touches, it wont be an issue later right? Some of my clearances are small, but they are there. Its more an issue on the rear.

Second involves the rear rotors. How much sag is necessary? The bottom of my rotors kick out when I let them go, but not that far. It seems the hub diameter in the middle is really the limiting factor. Should I worry about that?

That's sounds like the perfect amount of sag. As long as they don't stay in place when you let them go and you feel confident they are loose, you're good.

As far as clearances, It should be good as you say. However, parts flex can be expected a little. The main thing will be the pad wear. As you drive you will see how the pad beds into the rotor and if it is off then you will want to check and see if anything doesn't have enough clearance.

BigJim had a perfect example when we were finalizing the shape of the front bracket for clearnce of the caliper piston body.

[KingpinSVT]

Ive checked the clearance between the piston body and front bracket, its fine. No touching there. Im about to go start the last corner. Yay!

[warmonger]

Gosh, Hurry up already.

[Kremithefrog]

I shouldn't need to send pics I hope. I'm working on making it right. And I'm not driving it until I feel confident it's right, which WILL be by Friday.

[Kremithefrog]

I think I got it all right now. I'll get it on the ground tomorrow and find out.

[KingpinSVT]

Well Im done. Backs took more time than the fronts for sure. Grinding the calipers and rotors isnt hard, but it takes time. Everything is on with no contact between the parts, so hopefully when the road test happens I dont have any problems. There were no surprises from the back, as War covered everything very well. You just need patience to get everything fitting correctly.

Now the question is, should I re-install my stock rear toe arms and start driving or wait until my TCAs get here (which hopefully happens soon!)? If they take another week, Im going for a drive. I cant wait any longer!

[Kremithefrog]

Probably a good idea for anyone doing this to adjust your brake lines. Make sure they ain't gonna rub nothing.

[warmonger]

Probably a good idea for anyone doing this to adjust your brake lines. Make sure they ain't gonna rub nothing.

Yeah, perfect time to throw in the stainless steel brake lines from BAT for about another $100. Also put some kind of clear tubing on them or zip tie some rubber around key areas so the stainless doesn't rub anything through.

[warmonger]

Well Im done. Backs took more time than the fronts for sure. Grinding the calipers and rotors isnt hard, but it takes time. Everything is on with no contact between the parts, so hopefully when the road test happens I dont have any problems. There were no surprises from the back, as War covered everything very well. You just need patience to get everything fitting correctly.

Now the question is, should I re-install my stock rear toe arms and start driving or wait until my TCAs get here (which hopefully happens soon!)? If they take another week, Im going for a drive. I cant wait any longer!

So what happened? What do you think?

[KingpinSVT]

I will be putting my stock rear toe arms on tonight. That will be perfect, as I will have empty road to go out and begin the bedding process.

IIRC, 10 threshold stops from 30 to 10 with cooldown in between and then 10 more from 60?

I will be upgrading to stainless lines soon. Maybe I can get them ordered this week.

I should have some impressions by tonight or tomorrow.

[Kremithefrog]

I think mine are OK. Only under very hard (pedal to the floor) braking does the driver side grab and jerk the wheel. I'm thinking this may be more to do with how the pads are making contact with the rotor right now and should improve as they wear down. Without ABS, I wouldn't even brake as hard as what is needed to cause it to happen. There are no weird sounds, clearances look good, etc. So I think it's OK.

[warmonger]

I think mine are OK. Only under very hard (pedal to the floor) braking does the driver side grab and jerk the wheel. I'm thinking this may be more to do with how the pads are making contact with the rotor right now and should improve as they wear down. Without ABS, I wouldn't even brake as hard as what is needed to cause it to happen. There are no weird sounds, clearances look good, etc. So I think it's OK.

The wheel shouldn't jerk at all unless the road surface is unever or the brake force is uneven. Are both pads contacting the same? If not then take it easy on braking, do lots of medium pedal stops rather than hard ones.

[starjammir]

Just finished my fronts...took about 5 hrs (damn place gave me the wrong pads), going to get the backs done in 6 hrs I hope since I have school tomorrow :S Wish me luck!

[Kremithefrog]

The wheel shouldn't jerk at all unless the road surface is unever or the brake force is uneven. Are both pads contacting the same? If not then take it easy on braking, do lots of medium pedal stops rather than hard ones.
Both pads aren't contacting the same. I don't even have a need to brake as hard as it takes to jerk the wheel. I'm driving 5 hours Friday, so I'm sure they'll bed in better and wear the pads to close to full/full contact by then. Then I'll test them out on the tail of the dragon. Even without them making full contact and just having the front done, I'm liking them. I'm sure the carbotech pads are helping that as well. My old pads were cracked and looked like crap (though were almost new).

[starjammir]

Just finished my fronts...took about 5 hrs (damn place gave me the wrong pads), going to get the backs done in 6 hrs I hope since I have school tomorrow :S Wish me luck!

Damn it!! I have a warped rotor. I was sanding and sanding the inside of it thinking that it wasnt seating right. Turned it around, sure enough a new OEM rotor warped. Ill get it machined tomorrow.

[warmonger]

Machining helps anyway, reduces the mass of the rotor and you will NEVER need all that rear rotor thickness anyway. Probably never need rear rotors again, lol.


Make sure when you mount it to the hub that it is loose as this warpage could just be it not seating properly. Also make sure there is no rust on the hub face. I use two lugnuts to hold the rotor in place with nothing else mounted to the rear and spin it whill looking at the edge against a background to see if the rotor is showing any runout.

I wire brushed my rear hubs, cleaned them with cleaner then painted them with the black 1500* barbecue paint, then after it dries I put grease on the studs near the base.

[warmonger]

Both pads aren't contacting the same. I don't even have a need to brake as hard as it takes to jerk the wheel. I'm driving 5 hours Friday, so I'm sure they'll bed in better and wear the pads to close to full/full contact by then. Then I'll test them out on the tail of the dragon. Even without them making full contact and just having the front done, I'm liking them. I'm sure the carbotech pads are helping that as well. My old pads were cracked and looked like crap (though were almost new).

So when you reworked them last night did you make improvements? If so that explains the uneven contact and then yes driving it will let them bed in level again.

[starjammir]

Machining helps anyway, reduces the mass of the rotor and you will NEVER need all that rear rotor thickness anyway. Probably never need rear rotors again, lol.


Make sure when you mount it to the hub that it is loose as this warpage could just be it not seating properly. Also make sure there is no rust on the hub face. I use two lugnuts to hold the rotor in place with nothing else mounted to the rear and spin it whill looking at the edge against a background to see if the rotor is showing any runout.

I wire brushed my rear hubs, cleaned them with cleaner then painted them with the black 1500* barbecue paint, then after it dries I put grease on the studs near the base.

I thought it just was not seating right until I put my other one on there. The one that is bad just spins and wobbles back and forth. I think its warped pretty bad. I have no idea why though.

[Kremithefrog]

So when you reworked them last night did you make improvements? If so that explains the uneven contact and then yes driving it will let them bed in level again.

Yeah definitely made improvements. There is still uneven contact but through a day's driving, it seems to be improving already. I don't think it's perfect though I THINK I've done everything to make it as it should be. I will have the wheels off tomorrow to bleed the brakes and I'll check everything once more. If something does go wrong, well I guess it'll just happen, but I can't see that happening as everything is tight, clearances are now good, and noises are non-existent while normal braking and driving. I just started hearing a new noise, but it's nothing really weird and I'm thinking it's just the pads on the outside starting to hit the rotors as they should. We'll see. Like I said already, I'm liking it, already an improvement over what I had. If it all holds together this weekend (many in the SE forum know how I drive) we'll know it's plenty good.

[KingpinSVT]

First impressions: Well, I stop faster! My reverse butt dyno says significantly faster. I havent driven my car in so long I really cant compare it all that well, but it is definitely an improvement, and it is definitely NICE! And this is all during break in. It should get better. . . .

I didnt drive much, as I seem to have some rubbing issues. Here are the symptoms and then Ill tell you what I think.

I think its from the front (on the right). My front calipers fit very tightly over the rotors with the new pads. While driving, the rubbing noise isnt constant (as in its not the whole rotor touching, just part). It does sound a bit metalic, but not like I think rotor on caliper bracket would sound. As soon as I apply the brakes, it goes away. It also seems to go away over about 35 MPH? Or, if I turn right I think it goes away then too.

I think its just the new pads making contact with the rotor. They were pretty tight going on. I didnt seem to have any rubbing issues when I checked during the install, but some gaps were pretty small.

I have finished my low speed bedding. I will do higher speed tomorrow I guess. It was dark out, and I couldnt see if this was something I might worry about or not. Plus, Im missing an exhaust hanger so my exhaust is bouncing around a bit and knocking on my subframe connectors and it was driving me nuts.

On another note, my SVT is back on the road after breaking the subframe on August 17th! Damn its been a long time!

[Kremithefrog]

Some noises are acceptable with brakes. It could just be the new pads or it could be a small problem. I'd take the wheels off and check for weird wear (like my picture) and for wear on the edges of the rotors. If everything looks OK and it's stopping OK, I'd probably give it a little more time. Sometimes, brakes will always make noise. You'd think my escort is long over due for brakes but the pads are nearly new. It's just the nature of the pads I have on it though and it makes noises while driving and stopping, so you just have to determine if it's a problem or not.

[KingpinSVT]

Well, drove the car today and the noise was gone :shrug: I couldnt see any sign of funky wear/rubbing on the rotor. I guess it might have been the pads after all. Finished high speed bedding, these brakes are great! They do an excellent job at making sure your seatbelt retainer works.

[warmonger]

Well it's about time someone finishes and posts a full opinion. :D

So tell EVERYONE how it work and if its worth it.....since you are the first one done with the whole set besides Ray and DemonSVT.
lol

I guess we will have to wait for someone who has actually driven their car the day or two before the conversion and after.

[starjammir]

That will be me!! I am finishing them tomorrow morning as I got the rotor thing fixed (I hope). Hopefully my SS lines show as they havent yet :(

[KingpinSVT]

Well it's about time someone finishes and posts a full opinion. :D

So tell EVERYONE how it work and if its worth it.....since you are the first one done with the whole set besides Ray and DemonSVT.
lol

I guess we will have to wait for someone who has actually driven their car the day or two before the conversion and after.

Well to be fair, I had the luxury of already having my car sitting on stands for 2 months and removing the brakes long ago. And it seems everyone who thought it would be worth it bought some, and if I convince them now all they can do is bish about how they missed there chance. :laugh:

The (low) cost is very easily justified by the gains. Bang for the buck factor: 10 of 10.

No, I hadnt driven my car in a while, but it definitely wasnt this good. And looking at the setup now with my rims on, I cant believe my dinky rears used to be my front brakes. I think I need 13" fronts. You wanna design another bracket? lol.

I will be ordering stainless brake lines/ATE fluid ASAP. The brakes grip hard, but my pedal feels soft. I am currently running Valvoline brake fluid. Im jumping on the Rara ship and saying look elsewhere. Its OK for a blah car, but I need more now dammit. :help:

[Ray]

I think, being the only one who had a BACK TO BACK comparison of the stock VS warmonger upgrade..

You can see me reactions in previous posts about the kit in the recent past.
I drove my stock brake-equipped car TO Mississippi, and Tom's car HOME.. it was HARD to get used to the difference.. You could LITERALLY, toss yourself forward while pressing as hard as you were used to having to do.

[starjammir]

OK WTF do I have to do to get these rear rotors to go on straight? I am getting pretty pissed off now since Iv been working ongetting one straight for the past two hours + 6 hours two days ago. I cant seem to get em to stop wobbling. I am PISSED!!

[warmonger]

You must clean up the inside of the rotor hat down at the base. It must be widened to fit. Non OEM rotors seem to take more work than OEM.
The hats are sort of tapered. Just work down at the bottom where you will make the most difference.

[starjammir]

All done. Looks good and feels good too. I am going to install the SS lines tomorrow I hope and bleed the brakes and clutch too...82K never done!

[COUGAR99]

Just got done installing the fronts. I have a question though....I did not have to grind the top stud at all. Everything lined up perfect with no gaps. Will this present any problem? I also had no casting flash on my caliper bracket....hmmm.

Now onto the rears :D

[AliasJerk]

Just got done installing the fronts. I have a question though....I did not have to grind the top stud at all. Everything lined up perfect with no gaps. Will this present any problem? I also had no casting flash on my caliper bracket....hmmm.

Now onto the rears :D

Bill didnt have to at all. Had to grind the hell out of the rears though... I would know I did one of them. :D

[KingpinSVT]

Just got done installing the fronts. I have a question though....I did not have to grind the top stud at all. Everything lined up perfect with no gaps. Will this present any problem? I also had no casting flash on my caliper bracket....hmmm.

Now onto the rears :D


Did you check the pics I posted of the problem? There should be a small gap between the 'hat' of the top stud and the caliper bracket to ensure there is no interference. When they touched, the alignment of the caliper bracket could change one way or another depending on which caliper bracket bolt was tightened first.

[COUGAR99]

Yea I saw your pics...even though they touch, everything is still in alignment. I tightened the bottom first then the top and then reversed it and there still wasn't any issue with the rotor touching the caliper bracket. Everything appears square as well, when I turn the rotor it stays centered in the bracket.

Update: Someone stripped the rear caliper bracket bolts out. I decided to put everything back together and call it quits for the night. I took the car for a drive and there are no noises...scraps, rattles. I can definetly feel the bias more towards the front. When I got home I took a look and it seems that my drivers side pad isn't contacting the rotor all the way. Thats my fault though since I am re-using my old pads that are pretty much brand new. That rotor was the original and has 117K on it. There were ridges on the rotor and consequently on the pad. I tried to plane the pad but I guess I didn't quite get it even enough. If it doesn't improve and I can't make it better by removing some pad material then I'll be getting new pads.

[KingpinSVT]

Well I will say the more I drive the more I am impressed by these new brakes, and can see a difference. Even though I cannot give a good back to back comparison, habits are habits. Tonight, doing some "spirited" driving, my old braking habits became visible, as I was using the same pedal pressure without thinking, and coming up short (braking too early) every time. So there is my comparison. I actually think that may be a better indicator than guessing.

On another note, the scraping noise came back. Im fairly certain its coming from the drivers side, and is really only surfaces on left turns. Im pulling everything apart again tomorrow to check and see whats up :blackeye:. Gotta do what you gotta do.

[warmonger]

Yea I saw your pics...even though they touch, everything is still in alignment. I tightened the bottom first then the top and then reversed it and there still wasn't any issue with the rotor touching the caliper bracket. Everything appears square as well, when I turn the rotor it stays centered in the bracket.

Update: Someone stripped the rear caliper bracket bolts out. I decided to put everything back together and call it quits for the night. I took the car for a drive and there are no noises...scraps, rattles. I can definetly feel the bias more towards the front. When I got home I took a look and it seems that my drivers side pad isn't contacting the rotor all the way. Thats my fault though since I am re-using my old pads that are pretty much brand new. That rotor was the original and has 117K on it. There were ridges on the rotor and consequently on the pad. I tried to plane the pad but I guess I didn't quite get it even enough. If it doesn't improve and I can't make it better by removing some pad material then I'll be getting new pads.

Also, even though though you say everything lined up, you'd better grind the back of that upper stud just to be safe. If you can see a small bit of light between it and the bracket then you are good. Remember that brakes heat up? Metal expands and when you are already touching you have no room for expansion. THen the bracket is going to turn and the pads won't be centered. There's plenty of metal AND you can do a tiny bit of grinding on the back of the bracket bar rather than just the stud head if you prefer.

Your old pads should bed in pretty soon, just make sure it isn't a clearance issue first or they'll bed in wrong.

[KingpinSVT]

On another note, the scraping noise came back. Im fairly certain its coming from the drivers side, and is really only surfaces on left turns. Im pulling everything apart again tomorrow to check and see whats up :blackeye:. Gotta do what you gotta do.

Pulled the left rear apart today. The rotor was touching the caliper bracket, but only periodically I guess. In any case, I quickly took away a little more material with the die grinder, painted, and reassembled.

Im getting damn good at pulling apart the brakes. I think this whole process took me 45 min.

[COUGAR99]

I finally started the rears today after much swearing over the invention of the torx bolt. I didn't get to finish but I made decent headway. I have one question...How much clearance should there be between the caliper mounting bracket and the rotor?

[warmonger]

Enough to see between them. Perhaps 1/32" or so.

[Kremithefrog]

I think I'll have you look at mine if/when we get the chance (maybe this weekend). They stopped a lot better than stock, but I don't know, something doesn't seems right. They held together for a weekend of hard driving, so it can't be anything too bad.

[SvtTour98.5-3]

Does anyone know the outside diameter of the rear bearing assembly? I have access to a lathe here at work and would rather turn down the inside of the rotor hat that way than to sit and grind them out.

[KingpinSVT]

Nope. You could always pull one of the rear brakes off and look, wont take all that long. Youll want to measure it with a caliper at least anyway, maybe someone here can help you.

[warmonger]

Does anyone know the outside diameter of the rear bearing assembly? I have access to a lathe here at work and would rather turn down the inside of the rotor hat that way than to sit and grind them out.

It's about the same size as the inside of your front SVT rotor. :idea:

Just add 1mm to that size and cut it all the way down in and you'd be good.

It only takes five minutes with a drum sander on a drill and a grinding stone for the last little bit at the bottom... each side that is.

[KingpinSVT]

To fit loosely mine took a lot more than a couple min. per side (if it matters they were the rotors Stazi supplies, Autospecialty I think?). However, with no grinding they are very very close (on the outside edge) to the same size as the rear hub.

[COUGAR99]

Took me about a hour per side....using a drum sander and a grinding stone.

This is with OEM rotors....is there some trick that I missed?

[warmonger]

To fit loosely mine took a lot more than a couple min. per side (if it matters they were the rotors Stazi supplies, Autospecialty I think?). However, with no grinding they are very very close (on the outside edge) to the same size as the rear hub.

Yes, I bought some from Stazi as well and they take more work than the OEM rotors. :shocked:
They are tighter in the hub than the OEM ones are. The OEM ones took a few minutes per side the autospecialty rotors took like 15min per side.

BTW, How are the brakes now that you have had them on a week or so?

[KingpinSVT]

Still going strong. After I reworked that one rear caliper bracket Ive had 0 issues, and they still put a smile on my face, especially at high speed stops. My only complaint is pedal feel, but that isnt the brakes fault. I need some stainless lines and non Syntech fluid.

[RandyCSVT]

I just finished the driver's side front brake. Install went smooth, and was easy with a dremel, hand tools, and rat tail file. The hardest part was getting that caliper retaining spring back on. After I finish installing the passenger side tomorrow I will say a short prayer, hope everything is installed right, and take it for a test drive.

[Big Jim]

Here is a photo of what I needed to do to get clearance so that both caliper slide pins could be installed. The bright spot shows the grinding needed to keep the caliper from hitting the bracket.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/jjhaven/100_1012.jpg

[KingpinSVT]

Jim Im wondering if you got an earlier version of the bracket than what when into production. I know you posted pics of your setup close to production but I dont know if any changes were made between the time yours were made and the rest were made from the masses. My bracket had plenty of clearance for the caliper, no grinding required (on that piece).

[Big Jim]

I installed the pre-production brackets in the prototype stage. Corrections were made. I then received a single bracket for a trial fit and found this same area needed major trimming. That improvement was made for the production brackets. When the rear production brackets came, I received a production front bracket so I would not have the pre-production bracket on the car that had badly elongated holes to make it fit.

It is the production bracket that you see in the photo.

Yours is an E1, it probably has the late calipers.

Anyway, I'm only cautioning those that have an E0 that further trimming may be needed.

The brakes are great. It was worth all the hassles to help it become a reality. I'm anxious to get the rears done.

By the way, you can see the witness mark on the caliper where it was hitting.

[KingpinSVT]

I actually have the earlier, or less popular, big brake pad brakes. My car is a miss match of E0 and E1 parts. I must have been right in the middle of the changes Ford made.

[warmonger]

:cool:
It seems like you experts have this stuff firmly under your control. I've only got about four more sets to ship and this thing will be done for me (thank god) and all we will need to do is help others through any issues that come up.

[RandyCSVT]

I just finished the driver's side front brake. Install went smooth, and was easy with a dremel, hand tools, and rat tail file. The hardest part was getting that caliper retaining spring back on. After I finish installing the passenger side tomorrow I will say a short prayer, hope everything is installed right, and take it for a test drive.


I finished the pass side this morning, took the car for a test drive, and got some grinding. I tore everything apart and had to dremel away some more material on the front most part of the caliper brackets. Everything seems fine now. I will give updates on how it feels as I drive them more.

[starjammir]

What is it with everyone and having to take it all back appart and grind some more. I am just glad I got it right the first time!

[RandyCSVT]

I would rather have to grind a second time than take too much off the first time. I play things rather cautiously. It is much easier to do the second time around. The regrinding only took me 1/2 for both sides. Most of that time was spent grinding.

[warmonger]

Okay, I examined Kremits front brakes and they are on good with no issues.
His car brakes beautifull and straight.
THe pulling he felt was because he was finally activating his ABS system. :D
Seems one tire is breaking loose before the other on very hard stops and the abs kicks in, but right before it does the car has a slight jerk as one wheel grps better.
I think I told him its his left front, but actually the right front must be breaking traction before the left. The ABS modulates and keeps the car tracking straight.

Anyway, the only solution for this is more TIRE rubber! :cool:

[rkneeshaw]

Anyway, the only solution for this is more TIRE rubber! :cool:

That is SWEET

[todras]

Okay, I examined Kremits front brakes and they are on good with no issues.


That must been quite the meeting. Was he able to form complete sentances in person?:laugh:

[warmonger]

That must been quite the meeting. Was he able to form complete sentances in person?:laugh:

Well, Yeah. lol He was quite the gentleman and pretty handy with tools to boot. :cool: ....almost made me wanna stop cussing while he was around.... :rolleyes: Okay, maybe not that far but I thought about it.

[Ray]

That's not the first meeting they've had.. We all met up, not too long ago, too. Ross is a stand-up guy. Period. He takes a lot of crap from a lot of people and takes it well.

Tom, on the other hand...

:nonono:






:D :D :D :D

[warmonger]

:ponder:

Soooo

I'm the one dishing the crap out? :idea:

[COUGAR99]

Alright so I haven't been able to do my rears yet because my passenger side is so stripped out. Bill Jenkins has been trying to get the bolt that holds the caliper to the bracket, but Ford discontinued it, and he can't locate it at any dealers. One guy he talked to said it was a start style bolt and that a hardware store might have them. I'm heading there now, but I was wondering if anyone has one or knows where I might be able to get one?

Thanks

[warmonger]

Are you talking about the single caliper slide pin/bolt on the rear? Those things are a pain to put in if you have teh park brake cable on when you install them. I find it easier to unhook the cable form the lever, depress the metal clips and then remove the cable first than to leave it hooked up while attempting to line that bolt up due to the pressure from the cable.

Also, you guys will want to pop loose the cables by depressing the little tabs and let the cable lay free. The caliper angle is changed and the cable sheath may pop loose if you don't.

[COUGAR99]

Yea thats the one. The problem is that it is so stripped out that I cannot remove it. I would rather not totally destroy it, until I have a replacement. The hardware store near me didn't have anything that would work. I'll try and expand my search tomorrow, but I forsee myself having to go to a scrap yard for it.

[KingpinSVT]

OK, I have one small problem. The sheath (sp?) for the drivers side parking brake cable does not like to stay in the retainer cup where it meets the caliper. It doesnt cause any problems, but I cant think of a good way to get it to stay put. Do you think if I move the attachment point on the trailing arm it might help? Ive already moved it forward a good amount.

I suppose I can live with it if it keeps happening. Ill be sure to cover it in grease to keep water out if I cant get it to stay put.

[warmonger]

OK, I have one small problem. The sheath (sp?) for the drivers side parking brake cable does not like to stay in the retainer cup where it meets the caliper. It doesnt cause any problems, but I cant think of a good way to get it to stay put. Do you think if I move the attachment point on the trailing arm it might help? Ive already moved it forward a good amount.

I suppose I can live with it if it keeps happening. Ill be sure to cover it in grease to keep water out if I cant get it to stay put.

Like I said, you need to leave it OUT. Pop the metal fitting that goes on the end of the cable loose form the mount it has on the caliper and leave it in there at an angle. This does not hurt anything and prevents the plastic sheath from separating from the metal fitting.

[KingpinSVT]

Oh, I must have missed that. Sorry. So the "cup" as Ive called it is still on the cable (on the sheath end), and free of the caliper? Ill check that out this weekend. Hell, maybe Ill get a chance to get my car on the lift tomorrow and do it without removing the wheels :cool:

[warmonger]

Well, did you get all that figured out?

Any longer term opinions now?

[COUGAR99]

My local junkyards are devoid of contours or cougars with rear disks. I've been too busy for the last two weeks to really do anything else with it. Everything is all prepped and ready to be put on, so as soon as I get that silly bolt I'll be in business.

With just the front done I'm loving the extra braking power. It has saved me a few times, the most notable being, doing about 70 on the highway and entering a construction zone. Someone decided they couldn't see the cones blocking the road so pulled in front of the car ahead of me going around 25. I stopped with room to spare although the land rover LR3 behind me had to go into the median. Which brings me to the only problem I have had so far. After that stop the rotor started rubbing the bracket. I got home and took it apart and it seemed that the adapter bracket shifted a bit. I positioned it back to where it didn't rub and tightened it down to about 40 ft/lbs, hasn't happened since.

I'll give you an update when I finally get the rears on.
Thank you again Tom!!!

[warmonger]

Well that's great to hear!

Good luck with the rears.

[stilov]

Does anyone know what the littlest wheel will fit over these brakes? Like maybe a 16 in Fpcus wheel? If I decide to get a set of slicks or drag slicks?

[Big Jim]

The 16" SVT wheels fit, both the E0 and the E1 style. Other 16" factory wheels will likely fit, but I don't know of anyone who has test fitted anything else.

[COUGAR99]

16" Cougar wheels fit with no problem as well.

[Kremithefrog]

16" rota slipstreams fit great.

[toolive4life]

Hey guys, i am having a local shop put my rear brackets in seeing i am doing rear drum to disc conversion at the same time. i was hoping for a definitive list of things that i need to have them do or problems that people have had come across when installing the rears. any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks. Matt

[KingpinSVT]

Any issues with the rears are well documented in the instructions.

Im somewhat surprised you found a shop that would be willing to install these. Seems a little bit "too custom" (if you know what I mean) for them to touch b/c of liability issues.

[toolive4life]

it is the same shop that put my wilwoods on the front...so they are pretty familar with my car. the instructions i have seen dont come out right when i go to view them...therefore i was asking the groups seeing most of you have already done this. anyway thanks for the help.

[warmonger]

What's wrong with the instructions? Maybe you can download them from a different computer and print them?

[OB1]

I just want to know if anybody doesn't want to go through the hassle of installing these? I will gladly take the kit off of anyone that doesn't want it! Shoot me a PM!

[Big Jim]

I installed the rear kits yesterday and thought I would pass on some observations.

A reasonable option to opening up the hat area of the rotor to fit over the hub is to reduce the size of the hub. Since I started enlarging the hat diameter before realizing this option, I ended up doing a combination of both. I think the best answer is doing the hub by itself. I used the same drum sander for the hub as I did for the rotor, and spun the hub by hand while applying the drum sander to maintain concentricity. There is less area on the edge of the hub and it takes less time to reduce it compared to increasing the rotor hat diameter. If I had access to an on the car brake lathe I would investigate rigging it to make this cut. Also if I had access to a machine shop I would investigate machining the hat (just like a miniture brake drum) slightly oversized.

When enlarging the factory caliper slot to accomodate the thicker rotor, I used a grinding wheel similar to the way that Warmonger pictured in the how to. I used a 9" wheel. It was hard to hold the piece. If I were to do this again, I would either try to find a less agressive cutting wheel or find a way to reduce the speed. The wheel cuts very agressively, and would be easier to control if it was either a bit slower or if the wheel were less agressive.

If I had access to a mill in a machine shop I most certainly would have preferred cutting this out instead of grinding it. It would be more precise and much easier to control.

But it is finally done and it looks great. I havn't driven it enough for the pads to seat into the rotors yet so I still need to reserve judgement on how much it helps, but even now the brakes are more agressive than with the large fronts only.

I lost a little pedal firmness which I mostly atribute to the bads not yet bedding in, however I will be bleeding / flushing the system once the rears have had a chance to settle in.

Not only does the car stop much better than it did with stock brakes, it looks more like the high performance car it really is with the larger rotors front and rear.

I mentioned the machine shop options for anyone that does have such access. In my earlier hot rodding days one of my best friends family owned a machine shop and we were able to perform some small projects of this nature after hours or on weekends. I would love to have such access now, but time moves on and friendships drift away.

War, thanks again for seeing this through.

PS I forgot to mention that I ground enough away from the nuckle that I have room to slip a box end wrench over the upper retaining bolt.

[warmonger]

Sounds Great. I'm glad to hear that if people just take their time the rears will go together nicely. I kept shaking my head thinking "...this isn't that hard..." but wondering if I overestimated the difficulty for the mainstream.

Thanks for the report Jim. I'll be looking forward to your full review after the rear pads bed in.

[Big Jim]

A partial update. Pedal has improved but I think I can get it up a bit more with bleeding (not done yet).

When the larger fronts were first installed, I reported that in my subjective opinion braking was improved about 15% to 20%. With the larger rears it has improved some more, however the biggest improvement is that the brakes seem more stable. I feel that I have better control when braking in turns.

I'll report again after I've bled the brakes.

[warmonger]

A partial update. Pedal has improved but I think I can get it up a bit more with bleeding (not done yet).

When the larger fronts were first installed, I reported that in my subjective opinion braking was improved about 15% to 20%. With the larger rears it has improved some more, however the biggest improvement is that the brakes seem more stable. I feel that I have better control when braking in turns.

I'll report again after I've bled the brakes.


Jim,

Just to be sure, check your Park brake cable sheathing where it pops into the mount on the caliper.

Now that the stock caliper is at a higher angle the metal end can pop off the sheathing and it may give you a funny feeling in the P-brake handle. I recommend not snapping then fully back into place but to just let them sit in the hole at a slight angle. Performance is not compromised and it will relieve stress on the cable sheathing where it fits into the metal fitting.

[Big Jim]

I'll look again, but the cables were fine when I finished the installation.