3L performance question [Archive]

warmonger

10-07-2006, 11:01 AM

Depends, but against a stock 5.0 a decent 3.0 will probably hand the 5.0 its ass depending on the year. A mod'd 5.0 could do anything from tie with a 3.0 contour to utterly destroy it. lol

Same with the various years of the 4.6L, some were better than others plus there were 2v and 4v versions.

Its about power to weight ratio and area under the torque curve. If you want to know look up an average dyno sheet from each car and compare with shiftpoints and weight as a factor, along with fwd/rwd factors.

novellino21

10-07-2006, 10:19 PM

my reason being is b/c i just bought my 3L csvt a couple months ago and i absolutly love the car but i want to build it more and eveuntually do a forced induction project on it in the future. But wit all this modding means no trac. b/c of fwd:(
I currently have a 98.5 csvt 3L swap from a 04 Ford Escape. non hybrid. With a SAFC. How would my car compare to a 5.0 or a 4.6 stang(stock).

I'm thinking about selling the svt for a older stang v8 and modding it out b/c its rwd, but it wont be rare, 4door, sleeper car, and good in winter which is the greatist things bout the csvt's.
Basically i wanna know what my car is equal too performance wise b/c csvt's dont feel as fast on the butt dyno where as my probe gt felt way faster than it was on the same dyno:)

Big Jim

10-08-2006, 02:16 AM

The one place that your Contour would be superior is when your carving a canyon. If you're trying to make it a drag car, it will be very difficult to make it run like a well modded and tuned Mustang.

AliasJerk

10-08-2006, 10:47 AM

You can get plenty of power out of a 3L CSVT and still not have serious traction issues.

Although instead of F/I you might be better off doing nitrious. That way you can do a bunch of bolt ons, push down plenty of power N/A for daily driving and such. But once you get to the track, get the nitrious flowing once you hit 3rd or 4th gear. No traction problems and a nice track time. :cool:

Ray

10-08-2006, 11:53 AM

So, a RWD, drag built platform will go down the track faster... WHO CARES?

I can start my car, drive through the canyons at my home, hug each apex at near any speed I choose, change my pants twice on the way due to engine sound (:drool:), get to the track before the mustang, make two or three passes, and LEAVE before the mustang can get there to make its pass which is a piddly 2 or 3 seconds faster than mine was.

All of this while carrying my luggage and my friends.. and I could care less about a mustang being faster at the track.

novellino21

10-08-2006, 12:05 PM

yea everything you guys said is true, but do mustangs really handle that poorly? I figured you can make them handle decently. But that did slip my mind bout the contour is that it can do more than make a decent time in a straight line.
Bout the nitrous thing, i dont know. Nitrous has to be done right if you want the life out of your engine. I would want to do wet nitrous and not dry b/c it's better for your motor and more efficient. But that means i gotta take my engine down to the block almost. Either way it's a ton harder on the engine but you can do it the right way or the wrong way and i think dry nitrous is the wrong way. But be4 that i would do a bunch of bolt on's first. I can't waite till i get exhaust and headers next year, it's going to sound amazing:) My goal is to beat a stock sti in a staight line. if not that then get into mid 13's on street tires at the least.What would be a decent time for a 3L wit only bolt on mods(xception of the 3L swap).

AliasJerk

10-08-2006, 01:20 PM

The contour was never designed for straight lines. The contour was origionally a Mondeo in Europe, European cars are designed for handling, taking a corner. Not going in a straight line, they arent americans.

Thats what I respect about the contour, My old Zetec contour I had more funs in the twisties then when I drove my mom's Grand Prix GT. Although it was much faster in a straight line.

Personally I would rather have a car that puts a stupidly big smile on my face in the twisties then a car that gives me good numbers in a straight line.

chrisl311

10-08-2006, 01:23 PM

well you sure as hell have a great start with the 3l, which i assume you got from blackcoog? man just start with a full exhaust, youll smile everytime you drive it. do your suspension with shocks and springs, and youll see what theyre talking about. a lighter flywheel would have been nice, but its a little late for that now. just take it in strides...

novellino21

10-08-2006, 06:17 PM

yea about the lowering springs too, my car already bottoms out on driveways and if i lower it more than i wont be able to freak'in drive anywhere.
I just bought some 18 inch 7 spoke silver wheels and they look good on the car as well as up the handleing performance on it but i do have a big gap in the front. The rear not as much just b/c of how the car was deisigned it naturally sits lower in the back than the front for some reason.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/pnove/peterscrap030.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/pnove/peterscrap019.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/pnove/peterscrap016.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/pnove/image.jpg

Opinions on the wheels are welcome, is the gap too big to where it looks ricy? So i dont know what to do yet. I wanna get cold air, exhaust, headers, and mayb a chip. But i also want to lower it and work the show department too. So much stuff such little money:(

warmonger

10-08-2006, 11:20 PM

They look good to me. You should fix the front fascia first though.

DemonSVT

10-09-2006, 12:07 AM

novellino21

10-09-2006, 12:46 AM

alright so you guys pretty much convinced me to not go the mustang rout and keep the csvt since i'm already bout 1/2 way there modding it wit the 3L swap and all.

I really wish i could race somone in a stock mustang, i havnt raced anyone since i've gotten the car. It's weird b/c the car doesn't feel as fast as it is.

and the grille thing, yea i know it needs to be fixed. i went to home depot and bought some gudder guard stuff and some time i'm going to switch everything out for that stuff. i'm jus nvervous taking apart my upper grille b/c everything is melted together and i dont want to brake my grille into pieces. i did look up the faq on it but it still doesnt make complete sence to me yet. too bad i cant pay someone to do it for me. that'd be cool.

Anybody know what would be the best mufflers for the csvt's? I want exhaust but cant afford it yet but want the car a little louder, what mufflers would do the job?

chrisl311

10-09-2006, 02:53 AM

so your car isnt lowered? but it bottoms out? you need to get new shocks too if you get the springs, they help with things like that...

Blackcoog

10-09-2006, 08:30 AM

novellino21

10-09-2006, 11:51 PM

yea i dont know, i dont think i wanna lower the car yet. I'd rather spend that money on header and exhaust. But eventually i might do that. unless i get a really good deal on a used set or somthing.

Redlineracer12

10-11-2006, 08:55 PM

alright so you guys pretty much convinced me to not go the mustang rout and keep the csvt since i'm already bout 1/2 way there modding it wit the 3L swap and all.

Anybody know what would be the best mufflers for the csvt's? I want exhaust but cant afford it yet but want the car a little louder, what mufflers would do the job?

try trubendz.com, cheap decent exhaust for the contour with plenty of options.

With a decent tune, headers, exhaust, intake you'll give most basic 5.0's a run for the money...

I kept up with a 5.0 5spd with exhaust and an xpipe from about 40 to 130 :) On a closed track of course ;) either way he was quite impressed. That was with my 178.9whp with my 2.5L You should be able to beat that...

The best chance you have in the contour is on the highway or taking corners because it will never hook up like a rwd... although i think my car gets amazing traction (for fwd of course). I barely break the tires loose going into second and rarely chirp 3rd.

Blackcoog

10-16-2006, 09:17 AM

try trubendz.com, cheap decent exhaust for the contour with plenty of options.

With a decent tune, headers, exhaust, intake you'll give most basic 5.0's a run for the money...

I kept up with a 5.0 5spd with exhaust and an xpipe from about 40 to 130 :) On a closed track of course ;) either way he was quite impressed. That was with my 178.9whp with my 2.5L You should be able to beat that...

The best chance you have in the contour is on the highway or taking corners because it will never hook up like a rwd... although i think my car gets amazing traction (for fwd of course). I barely break the tires loose going into second and rarely chirp 3rd.

I'm curious what mods do you have on your Contour to get 180whp? What dyno was that again? DB Performance? What type of dyno do they have? Isn't it a mustang dyno?

m4gician

10-16-2006, 11:07 AM

Do bolt ons to your 3L and then go from there.

Pope

10-16-2006, 02:44 PM

Consider the Contique a good looking Mustang that actually handles well.

If straight line is your cup of tea you picked the wrong platform and the wrong wheels to drive it.

As for your "bench racing" question...

3L CDW-27 = 13.4 to 15 flat
Stock (88+) V8 Mustang = 14.2 to 15.5

Then again how rare is a "bone stock" Mustang...

what constitutes "bone stock" cause if that simply means no upgrades, it's possible to hit high 13's on an 88-92 mustang with little more than a timing change, a tank full of good gas, and good tires. For that matter, the stock, out the door 2000 SVT Cobra R runs 12.9's, but if comparing SVT to SVT is unfair, go get a 2005+ Mustang Gt and run 13.8's bone stock and heavy as hell, stip some weight off it and run low 13's, open up the intake (remove silencers and baffles) and hit high 12's. Besides, how many n/a 3.0l tours can actually break the mid 14's? (anyone other than Demon?)

I hate to say it, but really a stock 88-92 mustang and a contour with a motor swap are fairly even in a straight line.

Now let us compare a 88-92 5.0 mustang with a next larger engine swap (5.8l) to a contour with it's next larger engine swap (gotta be fair) and the contour will not touch the mustang in a straight line.

But seriously, if you want a good cruising car that is still quick, and can be good in AutoX, stick with the contour, if you want to build a car that can be fast in a straight line or on road course, because in truth mustangs are frequently built to handle, then go with a mustang.

There is no denying, you will be hard-pressed to find a mustang capable of beating a contour in autoX, but for open track or grand prix style performance capabilities, you are further ahead with a stang over a tour.

Blackcoog

10-16-2006, 02:55 PM

what constitutes "bone stock" cause if that simply means no upgrades, it's possible to hit high 13's on an 88-92 mustang with little more than a timing change, a tank full of good gas, and good tires. For that matter, the stock, out the door 2000 SVT Cobra R runs 12.9's, but if comparing SVT to SVT is unfair, go get a 2005+ Mustang Gt and run 13.8's bone stock and heavy as hell, stip some weight off it and run low 13's, open up the intake (remove silencers and baffles) and hit high 12's. Besides, how many n/a 3.0l tours can actually break the mid 14's? (anyone other than Demon?)

I hate to say it, but really a stock 88-92 mustang and a contour with a motor swap are fairly even in a straight line.

Now let us compare a 88-92 5.0 mustang with a next larger engine swap (5.8l) to a contour with it's next larger engine swap (gotta be fair) and the contour will not touch the mustang in a straight line.

But seriously, if you want a good cruising car that is still quick, and can be good in AutoX, stick with the contour, if you want to build a car that can be fast in a straight line or on road course, because in truth mustangs are frequently built to handle, then go with a mustang.

There is no denying, you will be hard-pressed to find a mustang capable of beating a contour in autoX, but for open track or grand prix style performance capabilities, you are further ahead with a stang over a tour.

Actually I think there are a few of us that broke mid 14's. I ran a 14.3 with my 18 in. rims back when I had my hybrid. If you mean mid 13's then I'd agree.

DemonSVT

10-16-2006, 07:39 PM

That must be some rarified air to drop over 1 second from a couple degrees of advance.

Pope

10-16-2006, 07:58 PM

That must be some rarified air to drop over 1 second from a couple degrees of advance.

or they were a bit under rated and detuned from factory. besides to get from low 14's to high 13's on timing in a poorly tuned car isn't difficult, especially when you do not make the mistake of running on regular street tires or an empty gas tank (in fox body).

maybe you mean the new ones hitting high 12's when they run high 13's from factory. I have not done this myself, but I have witnessed it. there was a guy at the track earlier this summer setting a baseline before mods, having done nothing more than gut restrictions from the intake, and put the interior in race trim (drivers seat only, no spare tire/jack) and DR's on lightweight rims; Hit 12.9's. Now he hits 11's, but that tends to happen with a turbo, tune, and suspension upgrades (amongst other things).

XKontour98

10-25-2006, 02:45 PM

[QUOTE=novellino21;17727]yea about the lowering springs too, my car already bottoms out on driveways and if i lower it more than i wont be able to freak'in drive anywhere.
QUOTE]

That's what I thought until I dropped some H&R's and Koni's in. Haven't scraped anywhere near what I used to stock, and that was on an SE suspension w/SVT body kit and 17"s.

I'd do the suspension first, it is worth the cost and the reward is amazing!

warmonger

10-25-2006, 08:19 PM

or they were a bit under rated and detuned from factory. besides to get from low 14's to high 13's on timing in a poorly tuned car isn't difficult, especially when you do not make the mistake of running on regular street tires or an empty gas tank (in fox body).

maybe you mean the new ones hitting high 12's when they run high 13's from factory. I have not done this myself, but I have witnessed it. there was a guy at the track earlier this summer setting a baseline before mods, having done nothing more than gut restrictions from the intake, and put the interior in race trim (drivers seat only, no spare tire/jack) and DR's on lightweight rims; Hit 12.9's. Now he hits 11's, but that tends to happen with a turbo, tune, and suspension upgrades (amongst other things).

Pulling all the seats, intake, DR's......this isn't stock at all no matter how you want to call it. Definitely not "just a timing change"

By comparison I had EVERYTHING in my old car with the additon of 200lbs of stereo gear, bigger rims and tires, sound deadener...hell I got extra EVERYTHING and then I went to the track in that trim on stock width streat tires 215/45-17s and made the times and trap speeds in my sig.
By gutting out my car I could have dropped an easy .75-1 second. in ET

Kremithefrog

10-25-2006, 08:51 PM

But seriously, if you want a good cruising car that is still quick, and can be good in AutoX, stick with the contour
I'd build a mustang for autox over a contour. Properly done, a fox body would be better than a contour.

Contour vs. mustang is a pretty stupid discussion. Completely different type of car.

novellino21

10-26-2006, 12:28 AM

The only benefit that i could see coming out of a mustang over a tour is that it's rear wheel drive. If my csvt was rwd that car would be perfect:) Accerlating through a corner/turn is hard in a fwd b/c if the wheels start to spin it's straight into the guard rail and if for some reason the back end gets loose it's difficult to correct. Not impossible, but difficult.
That is the only draw back i see to my car or any csvt is that it's fwd.There's a lot of things you can do with rwd and all wheel, your limited with fwd.

DemonSVT

10-26-2006, 11:24 PM

If my csvt was rwd that car would be perfect:)
Damn that is a big if. More like a painful pipe dream. :p :blackeye:

Ray

10-27-2006, 02:14 PM

I think "If my SVTC were AWD, it would be perfect" is a lot more feasible, though still a large pipe dream for most.

Kremithefrog

10-27-2006, 05:27 PM

if for some reason the back end gets loose it's difficult to correct. Not impossible, but difficult.
Hmm, been pretty easy for me to control the rear end stepping out (which it has plenty of times). Usually just give it gas and a bit of steering input. In my zetec it was hard to control because it didn't have the power needed (I've spun it more than once), but the svt does good.